Joe Quinn on 'CIA Candidate'

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Post by Raggedyann » 11-24-2011 02:28 PM

Fan wrote: I find this theory to be entirely believable. .

Conspiracy theories are a waste of time and energy. They create paranoia, are responsible for unstable people harming others, and they are unfair to the victims because there is never any hard proof. The victim, regardless of his/her position in life, have no way to defend themselves. Conspiracy theories that center on one individual's character, as opposed to events such as the Kennedy assassination, or the death of Princess Diana, is designed to create hate.

The subject of this thread is melodramatic, boring, and completely useless information. It probably came from a tabloid like "The Globe or the Enquirer".
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Post by Fan » 11-24-2011 03:16 PM

Raggedyann wrote: Conspiracy theories are a waste of time and energy. They create paranoia, are responsible for unstable people harming others, and they are unfair to the victims because there is never any hard proof. The victim, regardless of his/her position in life, have no way to defend themselves. Conspiracy theories that center on one individual's character, as opposed to events such as the Kennedy assassination, or the death of Princess Diana, is designed to create hate.

The subject of this thread is melodramatic, boring, and completely useless information. It probably came from a tabloid like "The Globe or the Enquirer".


How is speculating about Obama being involved with the CIA creating hate? There is ample president precedent. The CIA creates more hate in this world each decade than a trillion of me could possibly do by speculating on wide-ranging topics.

It is a conspiracy theory, a theory about a conspiracy. But, they are a waste of time, so let's not investigate any more terrorist stuff, gang killings, mortgage scams, well, anything involving 2 or more people involved in breaking the law. Because there is never any hard proof, and then Seal Team Six comes in and blows you away without due process. Or we drone you. Seems pretty convenient how conspiracy theories are put to work sometimes. Just depends if you like the person or not? Or we can't have conspiracies involving people inside the USA? Or just not about government?

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Post by bobbo » 11-24-2011 03:45 PM

Let's parse:

How is speculating about Obama being involved with the CIA creating hate? /// Ambiguous. Implies there is no hate being created? Does the "how" exactly matter if the fact of its existence is so Demonstrable that the Repbulican Party has been taken over by this paranoia?

There is ample president precedent. The CIA creates more hate in this world each decade than a trillion of me could possibly do by speculating on wide-ranging topics. /// Ambiguous. You appear to be agreeing the CIA creates hate but Obama being involved with the CIA is a separate issues. Dots yet to have been identified. But all still fatally ambiguous.

It is a conspiracy theory, a theory about a conspiracy. But, they are a waste of time, so let's not investigate any more terrorist stuff, gang killings, mortgage scams, well, anything involving 2 or more people involved in breaking the law. /// Rags point is just he opposite. Conspiracy theories are a distraction helping the USA NOT to pay attention to mortgage scams. Thats not actually true because the USA does more than two things at a time all the time. It is true the Media tends to only run highlighting one issue at a time but that is popular media attention. Not the totality of everything. But there is a reality that is subject to a conspiracy of import: the mortgage scams. Why no prosecutions? I haven't liked Obama's decision on issues near to this from the get go. Conspiracy or more likely just a convergence of independent interests and lack thereof. Is "MONEY" in general a conspiracy?

Because there is never any hard proof, /// there is hard proof for almost everything. Only takes desire, time, interest to feret it out. Bobboedit: Hard proof usually exists for all things "real." You are correct there never is hard proof for things that never existed/aren't true. That should given an answer to most of your issues?

and then Seal Team Six comes in and blows you away without due process. /// OBL is unique.

Or we drone you. //// Drones are overseas.

Seems pretty convenient how conspiracy theories are put to work sometimes. Just depends if you like the person or not? //// No. They are all bad. As Rags says: waste of time. Fodder for the irrelevant. One of my favs: Did Oswald act alone? The Kennedy Family accepted the Warren Report with all its flaws. Maybe they are part of the conspiracy "the Conspiracy" nice ambiguous reference, and if they are satisfied/shut up/not making an issue==we all have better things to do.

Or we can't have conspiracies involving people inside the USA? Or just not about government? /// Case by Case. Its the details that count. Takes a Revolution?
Last edited by bobbo on 11-24-2011 04:13 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Fan » 11-24-2011 04:17 PM

Originally posted by bobbo
Let's parse:

How is speculating about Obama being involved with the CIA creating hate? /// Ambiguous. Implies there is no hate being created? Does the "how" exactly matter if the fact of its existence is so Demonstrable that the Repbulican Party has been taken over by this paranoia?
So, saying Bush was CIA is OK? It is so farfetched that yet another president has intelligence ties? I don't care what republicans think, I think for myself. I don't buy into either party's propaganda if I can avoid it, which I can.
There is ample president precedent. The CIA creates more hate in this world each decade than a trillion of me could possibly do by speculating on wide-ranging topics. /// Ambiguous. You appear to be agreeing the CIA creates hate but Obama being involved with the CIA is a separate issues. Dots yet to have been identified. But all still fatally ambiguous.
It is easy to prove the CIA has caused hate. It is not easy to prove that thinking that obama has CIA ties causes hate. These are 2 different things. Being involved in the CIA doesn't mean you have assassinated someone.
It is a conspiracy theory, a theory about a conspiracy. But, they are a waste of time, so let's not investigate any more terrorist stuff, gang killings, mortgage scams, well, anything involving 2 or more people involved in breaking the law. /// Rags point is just he opposite. Conspiracy theories are a distraction helping the USA NOT to pay attention to mortgage scams. Thats not actually true because the USA does more than two things at a time all the time. It is true the Media tends to only run highlighting one issue at a time but that is popular media attention. Not the totality of everything. But there is a reality that is subject to a conspiracy of import: the mortgage scams. Why no prosecutions? I haven't liked Obama's decision on issues near to this from the get go. Conspiracy or more likely just a convergence of independent interests and lack thereof. Is "MONEY" in general a conspiracy?
If it is a group of 2 or more people involved in illegal activity, then yes. Mortgage scams are a conspiracy. My point is that calling outlandish theories conspiracy theories is the opposite of what people want that to mean. Trying to say something is not worth looking into because it is a conspiracy theory just makes no sense. Call it a silly theory or a useless theory, which is what is meant.
Because there is never any hard proof, /// there is hard proof for almost everything. Only takes desire, time, interest to feret it out.
Yes, quite... this is my point.
and then Seal Team Six comes in and blows you away without due process. /// OBL is unique.
Really? How so?

I quote:

"Assessments of the results of the attacks differ.[11] Daniel Byman from the Brookings Institution suggests that drone strikes may kill "10 or so civilians" for every militant killed.[12] In contrast, the New America Foundation has estimated that 80 percent of those killed in the attacks were militants.[13] The Pakistani military has stated that most of those killed were hardcore Al-Qaeda and Taliban militants.[14] The Bureau of Investigative Journalism based on extensive research found that at least 385 civilians were among the dead out of a total of between 1658 and 2597 killed.[15] The CIA believes that the strikes conducted since May 2010 have killed over 600 militants and not caused any civilian fatalities.[11]" (this is only about Pakistan strikes).

So, all these people got due process?
Or we drone you. //// Drones are overseas.
So it is OK to assassinate foreigners with no charges laid, no proof of their misdeeds, in fact no confirmation of their identity?
Seems pretty convenient how conspiracy theories are put to work sometimes. Just depends if you like the person or not? //// No. They are all bad. As Rags says: waste of time. Fodder for the irrelevant. One of my favs: Did Oswald act alone? The Kennedy Family accepted the Warren Report with all its flaws. Maybe they are part of the conspiracy "the Conspiracy" nice ambiguous reference, and if they are satisfied/shut up/not making an issue==we all have better things to do.
Perhaps some of us are not assuaged by these commitees employing the very people who would have to have been involved in the original conspiracy. Perhaps some of us enjoy trying to eke truth out of ambiguity.
Or we can't have conspiracies involving people inside the USA? Or just not about government? /// Case by Case. Its the details that count. Takes a Revolution?
Indeed case by case.
Fodder for the irrelevant.
Fodder for the irrelevant is sports, television, newspapers, hollywood, mainstream music and movies.

Anyways, I keep an open mind, and that is all I ever said, that I don't find it unbelievable that this could be true. There is enough mystery and sealed documents to make many people wonder what is true and what is not.

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Post by bobbo » 11-24-2011 04:54 PM

1. It is easy to prove the CIA has caused hate. It is not easy to prove that thinking that obama has CIA ties causes hate. These are 2 different things. Being involved in the CIA doesn't mean you have assassinated someone. /// True. The phrase/concept means different things to different people. To me it is a Red Flag that the following material is to be skipped over as unsupported and meaningless. To others, it means he is a CIA operative put in Government as a Manchurian Candidate to do the work of the Bilderberg Group'= aka, He's not one of us, Not a good American. I did say it is Ambiguous. Why post Ambiguous? There should be an intention to everything posted/stated/put into the marketplace of ideas? If not, people make their own connections.

2. Mortgage Fraud is a crime. Calling it a conspiracy while technically true on a thread about Obama is not a US citizen and noting he worked for the CIA and weaving conspiracy terminology/references into that is FUD.

3. How is Seal Team Six unique?/// Who else have they taken out?

4. So, all these people got due process? /// Of course not. Its called war and collateral damage. Making a point about civil liberties in the context of a foreign war ((ok--belligerency?)) cannot result in anything productive or relevant. More relevant: do such activities create more enemies than they kill? Quite often, thats the real inherent issue and as they all are: open to debate.

5. Perhaps some of us are not assuaged by these commitees employing the very people who would have to have been involved in the original conspiracy. Perhaps some of us enjoy trying to eke truth out of ambiguity. //// Ha, ha. 99% of the time, all that happens is eke. Even you stated there is no hard proof. But I agree--if you enjoy spending your time this way===have at it. But that is not what you do when you post not the truth but merely a series of ambiguous vaguely sinister questions. Thats FUD, bad thinking, and a waste of time. More like a hobby. Of interest to the hobbyist, and no one else. You should treat it that way.

6. Rank order your issues. Assess your time/interest available. Distribute as the mood strike you.

Conspiracy theories without any proof are a waste of time.
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Post by Fan » 11-24-2011 05:26 PM

3. How is Seal Team Six unique?/// Who else have they taken out?
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/08/06 ... ter-crash/ Truth is stranger than conspiracy theory. Nothing is impossible in this fairy tale. FUD does exist, but it is the people trying to keep secrets who spread it.

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Post by bobbo » 11-24-2011 06:05 PM

#96--Fan==what is your point directly stated regarding Seal Team 6. Your First written words are quite direct and clear. Your response now goes off on several tangents.

or is this but a another clever word association game that belongs in a different category?

Truth is stranger than conspiracy theory. /// Can be, but in both cases, "strange" needs proof.

Nothing is impossible in this fairy tale. /// A statement so general as to be irrelevant.

FUD does exist, but it is the people trying to keep secrets who spread it. /// No. FUD usually is part of any story due to many factors. It is when FUD is the purpose of the disseminater, aka LIES, that wickedness is a foot and to be labeled as "another wacko conspiracy theory."

Your response in context means to me that Seal Team Six took out Seal Team Six. I understand there are an unknown number of Seal Teams, all labeled Seal Team Six. But the evidence is those Seal Team Six members were taken out by Afghan Rebels. Thats a side issue and I'm only trying to be fair in saying: I don't know how your response is relevant to supporting your point.

But you avoid the question: what other people have been taken out by Seal Team Six. Or do you ever admit to error, over statement, or misapplication?
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Post by Fan » 11-25-2011 10:30 AM

bobbo wrote: But you avoid the question: what other people have been taken out by Seal Team Six. Or do you ever admit to error, over statement, or misapplication?


Sure, I am wrong quite often. I don't mind being wrong. Everyone is wrong most of the time, just not everyone can admit that.

I fail to see how your question is relevant at all. Why would I know who else they murdered (without just cause). Why don't you tell me? Do you claim that is the only hit team ever sent to murder someone? The Seal Team is unique, the hit was unique? The "disposal" of the fake body unique? The then-murder of the Seals (to shut them up) is unique?

What is unique is that some people actually BELIEVED the fairy tale the government told about all this. Now that is amazing! I will never fail to be amazed at the human capacity for bull**** ingestion when it happens to agree with their political party views or religious mindset.

[start hate speech]
This is ho-hum killing-du-jour in the old excited states, and Obama is right in there. The winner of the peace prize ordering hits like a mafia don. You guys have more to worry about than a few people talking about conspiracies about your warmonger president.
[/hate]

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Post by voguy » 11-25-2011 07:54 PM

The problem with an action by Seal Team Six, is the same as any military operation, it's sealed in secrecy. You may never know how many people were killed by such a squad, same Mossad, Quds, or even the Secret Intelligence Service.

The larger issue with a sizable government with an agency that size is you never know who, or what groups will be targeted, and if the reason is justified.

I still wonder, (based on news reports), if Osama could not have been taken alive, but injured. But then, what would the risks be, and would they have wanted him alive.
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Post by bobbo » 11-25-2011 10:37 PM

#98--Fan, these discussions become quite extended the more oblique the tangents. I like the way you blocked off your comments. Any one sentence hint as to how to do it?

I prefer parsing, but that would take up a lot of space. I'll paraphrase as fairly as I can.

..................................and now as succintly as I can: You post that conspiracies exist and if too much attention is drawn to them that Seal Team Six will come in and kill you. That is my understanding of what you post.

Do you think that or whatever you meant applies to OBL?

Not to obfuscate matters, but in the instant case, I think sending in Seal Team Six to off Saddam would have been far superior to what we did.

Would you agree with that?

sorry==two questions.
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Post by bobbo » 11-25-2011 10:45 PM

#99--Voguy: Lets parse:

The problem with an action by Seal Team Six, is the same as any military operation, it's sealed in secrecy. /// No. Most military actions are not covert. Secrecy exists to secure operations but most military operations are reported on the nightly news.

You may never know how many people were killed by such a squad, same Mossad, Quds, or even the Secret Intelligence Service. /// Shifting the reference to Covert Operations: So what? What possible difference does it make if OBL plus 3 guard or OBL plus 10 guards were killed? Or any other difference? Give an example of how hypothetically it could make a difference?

The larger issue with a sizable government with an agency that size is you never know who, or what groups will be targeted, and if the reason is justified. // Well, thats true. So, the price of FREEEEEEEEEdom is constant vigilance? I Agree. Do you agree or not that use of Seal Team Six against OBL was good and wise? Would have been with Saddam? And every other dictator in the World who we don't like?

I still wonder, (based on news reports), if Osama could not have been taken alive, but injured. /// Of course he could have--even with an acceptable risk of American casualites==what would the benefit of that have been?

But then, what would the risks be, and would they have wanted him alive. /// You don't send SS6 to "arrest" anyone. I'm glad he's dead. Don't want him alive. Do you? Why?

Sorry voguy--lots of questions. Pick and choose as you might.
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Post by Bobbi Snow » 11-26-2011 10:30 PM

If people were to dig into the backgrounds of ALL the U.S. Presidents, would we find the same kind of rhetoric? And if Obama weren't half white and half Kenyan, would anyone be doing this?

I am SO TIRED of this kind of b.s.
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Post by bobbo » 11-26-2011 10:56 PM

Bobbi--I think I know what "this" refers to in what kind of BS we are wallowing in here, but I do wonder what the "this" is before mentioned about Obama's background. Which of the 5-6 "this's" caught your attention?

Not hard to name a few, even fun to rub two brain cells together:
With BushtheRetard we had whether or not he evaded the Draft by joining the Guard, whether or not his Daddy got him into the Guard, whether or not he used Coke in the Guard, whether or not he was AWOL for several months, whether or not he lied us into Iraq, the Libby pardon issues.

With SlickWilly we had Monica Lewinski that actually got resolved while he was in office, then Office Gate, Vince Foster, water gate ((No wrong name, you know the Land Deal)) , the Chinese Funding Issue, and Paid for Pardons at end of Term.

Bush the Elder. Nothing comes to mind. He pandered to his right with "No New Taxes" but did the right thing for America by raising them giving ungodly rise to the TeaParty currently bedeviling our politics. What else did he do?

Reagun---too many to mention, but he was a nice man.

Different degrees of probability between these and Obama? Any difference if it was phrases as different degrees of possibility? Ha, ha. Yes, Much against Obama is "impossible." Even Joe Quinn was going after the legal effects of what was objectively true. You know==those issues that can be resolved in court and if they aren't are considered settled?
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Post by voguy » 11-27-2011 08:16 AM

Bobbi Snow wrote: If people were to dig into the backgrounds of ALL the U.S. Presidents, would we find the same kind of rhetoric? And if Obama weren't half white and half Kenyan, would anyone be doing this?

I am SO TIRED of this kind of b.s.


Bobbi, everyone in public office has skeletons. If their supporters want to ignore it, and focus only on the opposing parties sins, just shows how dimwitted supporters are. (And it pains me that people like that have voting privileges). It all comes down to; are you willing to accept their actions or will you be selective in what you feel is wrong and what is not based on your party preference.

Public office is similar to the Wizard of Oz by the fact that the people the public see are those on the giant screen, and not what is behind the curtain.
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Post by Riddick » 07-13-2015 11:58 PM

SquidInk wrote: But all in all, Joe, I think the "kitchen sink" crowd couldn't care less. They don't care because they know the whole system is a con job. They know that in the eyes of the power elite, they're each either a profit center or a cost center, nothing more. Profits are devoured, costs are annihilated. That's life. So what?
So what? So let's dance!


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