Are we witnessing a relatively rapid transition, say, within one lifetime, away from the Thanksgiving holiday.
It seems to me that within my lifetime (which began in '71) we will see Thanksgiving become a sort of cultural artifact, supplanted by Black Friday as the dominant and most highly celebrated fall holiday.
Actually, this has already happened. Ask yourselves if the teens and 20-somethings you know place a higher value on Thanksgiving and it's Puritan legends, or Black Friday and it's enhanced opportunity to buy things. Is this evidence of a "cultural migration", which is embracing or redefining a new benchmark of values?
In any case, this is probably a once-in-several-generations opportunity to witness such an overt & rapid transition. Interesting as well, to consider the forces at work to bring about this kind of rapid change. Does the pace of this transition tell us anything about it's validity?
Any thoughts?
Black Friday & Thanksgiving
Moderator: Super Moderators
Black Friday & Thanksgiving
Last edited by SquidInk on 11-24-2010 11:32 AM, edited 1 time in total.
For if it profit, none dare call it Treason.
It's called consummerism, and to some, it is a religion, whihc is ironic, because in today's society, although it is professed that one has the freedome to practice the religion of their choice, practically speaking, this simply isn't the case, especially in this economy. You know the set-up: "If you want to work here, you'll work holidays". I'm not exactly sure how this works in non-healthcare related fields, but, you're correct, it's never been this bad.
Up here in southern New England we have a tradition that many people follow. After spending the day celebrating, many people go to a place in Attleboro, Mass called LaSallette. It is shrine that was created by an order of French-Canadian priests and on Thanksgiving night - right at sundown, they switch on the lights for a Christmas display and start the Christmas season. The place is usually mobbed with people coming from all over the northeast to see the display which continues through New Year's. As time has passed, the numbers of people attending has noticably decreased, and mall traffic increases. For instance, this year WalMart and I think K-Mart will open for business on Thanksgiving later on the day ("We've got to move those refrigerators, gotta move those color tv's....."). And, where does it all end, except in larger landfills?
Yesterday afternoon, my wife had Oprah on (personally I can' stand the show...) but they had an interesting segment on about a group of Dominican nuns from Michigan. They were highlighting all these young women who have been increasingly drawn to life as religious sisters. Same thing has been happening with Mother Angelica's convent in Irondale Alabama. There was one woman on Oprah's show who told the audience her own story - she was sitting home one night, looking all her stuff, and said to herself that she could easily do without all this stuff which I think that she meant on more than one level. Next thing, she's in a convent. Obviously, this didn't occur overnight, and she had spent years thinking about this. But, I think that you highlight an important point - people, are increasingly dissillusioned with the constant barrage of commercials saying that you absolutely must (why is never really explained) have (fill-in-the-blank). The implication is that, if you don't you're some sort of loser, compared to your friends or colleagues. So, we end-up with the next generation of cell phones with apps people don't need, or bigger tvs, or videotapes. No beta! No dvds! No blue-ray! Whatever happened to those disks that looked like albums but played movies? Remember those? Probably in some landfill....... Meanwhile, people have no sense of this country's history or culture, but damn, new video games are out and lines are a-formin'.......... at least Obama hasn't accused us of being unpatriotic for not shopping........
Up here in southern New England we have a tradition that many people follow. After spending the day celebrating, many people go to a place in Attleboro, Mass called LaSallette. It is shrine that was created by an order of French-Canadian priests and on Thanksgiving night - right at sundown, they switch on the lights for a Christmas display and start the Christmas season. The place is usually mobbed with people coming from all over the northeast to see the display which continues through New Year's. As time has passed, the numbers of people attending has noticably decreased, and mall traffic increases. For instance, this year WalMart and I think K-Mart will open for business on Thanksgiving later on the day ("We've got to move those refrigerators, gotta move those color tv's....."). And, where does it all end, except in larger landfills?
Yesterday afternoon, my wife had Oprah on (personally I can' stand the show...) but they had an interesting segment on about a group of Dominican nuns from Michigan. They were highlighting all these young women who have been increasingly drawn to life as religious sisters. Same thing has been happening with Mother Angelica's convent in Irondale Alabama. There was one woman on Oprah's show who told the audience her own story - she was sitting home one night, looking all her stuff, and said to herself that she could easily do without all this stuff which I think that she meant on more than one level. Next thing, she's in a convent. Obviously, this didn't occur overnight, and she had spent years thinking about this. But, I think that you highlight an important point - people, are increasingly dissillusioned with the constant barrage of commercials saying that you absolutely must (why is never really explained) have (fill-in-the-blank). The implication is that, if you don't you're some sort of loser, compared to your friends or colleagues. So, we end-up with the next generation of cell phones with apps people don't need, or bigger tvs, or videotapes. No beta! No dvds! No blue-ray! Whatever happened to those disks that looked like albums but played movies? Remember those? Probably in some landfill....... Meanwhile, people have no sense of this country's history or culture, but damn, new video games are out and lines are a-formin'.......... at least Obama hasn't accused us of being unpatriotic for not shopping........
Thanks for posting, kbot.kbot wrote: It's called consummerism... at least Obama hasn't accused us of being unpatriotic for not shopping...
... and I had momentarily forgotten about the neo-patriotic concept of "shopping" as a pathway to personal & cultural greatness.
For if it profit, none dare call it Treason.
If you go shopping tomorrow - stop and share a smile with the person helping you in the store, you have no idea what they're going through on Black Friday.
Oh, and wish me luck, I'll be working in a few hours practically next door to a rather infamous spot that was discussed here on the forum a couple of years ago quite extensively after Black Friday went tragically wrong. The lines were already forming when I went home Wednesday night at 11pm.
If aliens are observing us, I wonder what they make of Black Friday?
Oh, and wish me luck, I'll be working in a few hours practically next door to a rather infamous spot that was discussed here on the forum a couple of years ago quite extensively after Black Friday went tragically wrong. The lines were already forming when I went home Wednesday night at 11pm.
If aliens are observing us, I wonder what they make of Black Friday?
"You'll get used to my babbling, all the others have." - Anna Madrigal from "Tales Of The City" by Armistead Maupin
-
Bobbi Snow
- Pirate
- Posts: 2366
- Joined: 01-20-2008 01:57 PM
I don't go NEAR A MALL anytime during the year, unless it's an absolute EMERGENCY!
And as for shopping? I don't care about the alleged 25%-50% sales prices... I know they jack-up the prices in October by just as much as they intend to take off of them during the sales days. So I buy gifts all year and get the free shipping, to boot.
When you've lived as long as I have, you know that letting your fingers type in:
Amazon.com
on your computer; it's the best way to shop. And you don't have to get out of your night clothes and take a shower before you can buy whatever your list says you will need.
And as for shopping? I don't care about the alleged 25%-50% sales prices... I know they jack-up the prices in October by just as much as they intend to take off of them during the sales days. So I buy gifts all year and get the free shipping, to boot.
When you've lived as long as I have, you know that letting your fingers type in:
Amazon.com
on your computer; it's the best way to shop. And you don't have to get out of your night clothes and take a shower before you can buy whatever your list says you will need.
If you're still breathing, it's not too late!I have to say I also think this was a great topic, it's something I didn't really think of, but it's a very smart point and I tend to agree.
What I have thought of is what Kbot mentioned, how consumerism is almost becoming like a religion. I thought of this pretty recent when hearing people talk about capitalism, it reminded me so much of the firebreathing preachers talking about religion. How it's infallable, you can't tweak it, even if parts that shown doesn't make sense or have failed, put faith in it fully and the invisible hand will do all, and if it doesn't, there just wasn't enough faith. If you dare say anything about it, and find faults in anything, they simply outcast you as a "Socialst" or worse.
If it is a "holiday", black friday would be it. I remember when it was a local story, then it became more national but still treated as a "In other stories" segments. But yeah, now it's a lead story throughout Thanksgiving and has without a doubt overshadowed the entire holiday. Which of course is strange as it's a long weekend holiday for some, but the hardest working weekend for others.
What I have thought of is what Kbot mentioned, how consumerism is almost becoming like a religion. I thought of this pretty recent when hearing people talk about capitalism, it reminded me so much of the firebreathing preachers talking about religion. How it's infallable, you can't tweak it, even if parts that shown doesn't make sense or have failed, put faith in it fully and the invisible hand will do all, and if it doesn't, there just wasn't enough faith. If you dare say anything about it, and find faults in anything, they simply outcast you as a "Socialst" or worse.
If it is a "holiday", black friday would be it. I remember when it was a local story, then it became more national but still treated as a "In other stories" segments. But yeah, now it's a lead story throughout Thanksgiving and has without a doubt overshadowed the entire holiday. Which of course is strange as it's a long weekend holiday for some, but the hardest working weekend for others.
Re: Black Friday & Thanksgiving
I was smart in 2010.SquidInk wrote: Actually, this has already happened. Ask yourselves if the teens and 20-somethings you know place a higher value on Thanksgiving and it's Puritan legends, or Black Friday and it's enhanced opportunity to buy things. Is this evidence of a "cultural migration", which is embracing or redefining a new benchmark of values?
I definitely agree with my past self on this one. Can't tell you how much I dislike 'Black Friday', and the fact that the world watches as we club each other in the face for a chance to buy low quality crap from subversive corporations.
How about we fly the pirate flag this holiday season - drop out, tune out, and spend time doing things that matter?
For if it profit, none dare call it Treason.
kbot was also smart in 2010!kbot wrote: It's called consummerism, and to some, it is a religion
[...]
Meanwhile, people have no sense of this country's history or culture, but damn, new video games are out and lines are a-formin'.......... at least Obama hasn't accused us of being unpatriotic for not shopping........
For if it profit, none dare call it Treason.
... and HB3 was wild, eclectic, and unexpected back then!HB3 wrote: Lol! You mean laserdiscs? I've got about 300 of them....
Is this one in the set: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068359/
or maybe this: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077838/ ?
Last edited by SquidInk on 11-12-2013 05:01 PM, edited 1 time in total.
For if it profit, none dare call it Treason.
Bobbi, this is true. It's also a tell tale that signifies the total obliteration of Thanksgiving - originally a time to come together, socialize, and express thanks for the bountiful harvest. But when the whole world has become an incredibly anti-social game of screw-the-next-guy; when you *are* the harvest - well, why even bother to leave the house.Bobbi Snow wrote: I don't go NEAR A MALL anytime during the year, unless it's an absolute EMERGENCY!
When you've lived as long as I have, you know that letting your fingers type in:
Amazon.com
on your computer; it's the best way to shop.
Thanksgiving is still celebrated, it still has "bountiful harvests" as it's theme, and it's still kept by modern day farmers...
Here's a modern Thanksgiving table:
Last edited by SquidInk on 11-12-2013 05:02 PM, edited 1 time in total.
For if it profit, none dare call it Treason.
FWIW, I shop all year long, and then squirrel it away till the holiday. That way the financial hit is not all in Nov/Dec, I'm more at ease with the purchases, and I give those I gift with something of use and not just "something".
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson
