Teresius - I agree, censorship sucks. And that is one thing that has been an ongoing problem with this forum.
Have been giving a lot of thought to some of these issues. Instead of freedom of speech, we could look at freedom of expression - within a community. Maybe that is where we should look, and we would need a definition of what that community is.
One thing certain - do not want to host a forum that is fertile ground for political extremism (insert definition), disinformation, flaming or trolling.
There is much to discuss which does not include these.
Any thoughts on this?
*moving this post to a thread in the Ship's Galley/FF Community. We can continue a discussion there.
Comments on Fantastic Forum
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Divinorumus
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Maybe some clarification on this is needed, such as an example. It would help to know WHY and what kinds of speech should be stricken or prohibited. I mean, even I know I may cross a line now and then (sorry when I do) .. yet again, on the other hand, WORDS are just WORDS .. either truth or fiction .. to be accepted or rejected ... or commented upon or not. I myself don't want to cause any HARM, yet, again, words are just words, and anyone is free to decide for themselves. Frankly, I have trouble in this area (maybe because of my lack of social skills because I wasn't out there playing with little balls and bats with my peers as I was growing up - ha), but I honestly feel anything goes in the area of words except for blatant unconstructive personal attacks. If one takes this censorship idea too far, nobody will TALK for fear that what they say might offend someone. I mean, I'm offended by talk of barbeques -- yet I would never insist such talk be prohibited anywhere.
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Divinorumus
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Wha? A community SHOULD be as diverse as possible, unless of course you are only interested in one particular subject/topic/theme. I LOVE diversity .. I soak that up like sunshine .. and every bit I can benefit from, be it good or bad. In fact, if someone thinks I'm an idiot, SAY SO because I WANT to know. It's GOOD to know where everyone stands and what they think. Of course, if you want a web site dedicated to, for example, sewing, then yeah, then only sewing talk should be allowed. If you want only one sided discussion, then certainly kick those out that can't talk the talk like the rest .. if that is deemed beneficial. I embrace diversity because I live on a diverse planet !
'Wide open' is what we basically have now. That is not working well for many here, hence this discussion.
What do you want from an internet community? What do you not want from an internet community? What is an internet community? Do we even want a community?
If we want a community - and can agree on what it should be, generally - we could post what the parameters are, and there would be general expectation, some kind of comfort level - and less censorship.
What do you want from an internet community? What do you not want from an internet community? What is an internet community? Do we even want a community?
If we want a community - and can agree on what it should be, generally - we could post what the parameters are, and there would be general expectation, some kind of comfort level - and less censorship.
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Divinorumus
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Is the problem "wide open" or something else, such as those that haven't learned to embrace diversity yet? I learned of the virtues of diversity when I was a teenager, and I learned it from a television show I fell in love with at that time: Star Trek. I kid you not, I would go to sleep each night dreaming of flying to far away worlds meeting that diversity! (I always loved those scene on that show that would begin with Kirk sitting on the end of his bed pulling his boots on while those alien women were buttoning up their blouses - ha) That show also lead me to join the military as soon as I turned 18 so I could travel to Asia to immerse myself in the next best thing to those far away worlds I thought I would never be able to fly away to in my lifetime.
Anyhow, the question might be: do you want a closed community tucked away within a diverse world just to accommodate those that find diversity unacceptable .. or should them that are like that NOT be accommodated within a diverse world any longer? What kind of world do we want to live in tomorrow? And what should we all be doing to help insure that is our world tomorrow?
One of my best friends when I was growing up was from India, and not because I felt sorry for him because he was the only darker skinned person in our school and was constantly being hassled. I learned a lot more from and through him than playing with little balls and bats with those that I was suppose to be more like - ha.
Anyhow, the question might be: do you want a closed community tucked away within a diverse world just to accommodate those that find diversity unacceptable .. or should them that are like that NOT be accommodated within a diverse world any longer? What kind of world do we want to live in tomorrow? And what should we all be doing to help insure that is our world tomorrow?
One of my best friends when I was growing up was from India, and not because I felt sorry for him because he was the only darker skinned person in our school and was constantly being hassled. I learned a lot more from and through him than playing with little balls and bats with those that I was suppose to be more like - ha.
Last edited by Divinorumus on 03-08-2007 04:32 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Divinorumus
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Div - don't blow this discussion so wide open there is nothing we can do with it. We are not looking for the cosmic here, just general parameters for a possible internet community, etc...
We started out as 'riders of the night' - an Art Bell fan forum. This was our core group. Where are we now, and what kind of an internet community - if any, do we want to be?
We started out as 'riders of the night' - an Art Bell fan forum. This was our core group. Where are we now, and what kind of an internet community - if any, do we want to be?
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Divinorumus
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I don't think so. If anything (and I'm speaking for and about myself of course), we need MORE diversity. (how else are we going to understand others without them?) I'm always open to new and diverse ideas and opinions and values, and the more the merrier! Diversity allows me to cover all my bases. I mean, do you want a baseball team made up of only catchers .. or pitchers? In fact, I'd love to see some of them Muslims that want to get rid of us here so we can discuss these things too. How is closing ourselves off from the rest of the world suppose to be beneficial?
Anyhow, do as you please of course .. go back to the old school ways if that was working for you. I of course do not know how things use to be here and what that was all about, having only recently shown up here. I myself thought this was a forum related to the diverse subjects being discussed on C2C and diverse options of the same. If it is not, or just a one sided and shared values web site, then I should be booted.
Anyhow, do as you please of course .. go back to the old school ways if that was working for you. I of course do not know how things use to be here and what that was all about, having only recently shown up here. I myself thought this was a forum related to the diverse subjects being discussed on C2C and diverse options of the same. If it is not, or just a one sided and shared values web site, then I should be booted.
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Divinorumus
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Divinorumus
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(I was wanting to nap, but I couldn't turn my head off, darn ADHD .. so ...) Here's an idea:
Make the ORR the CORE PRIMARY FEATURED SECTION of the forum, much like the ORR already is, except it is expanded in this way: Basically, each night a thread is started where participants can discuss the show and the topic and guest in question - like how it is now. Then, after the show is over, open a follow-up thread related to the topic (if it doesn't already exist already because of a previous similar show) where those that want to continue their discussion about this subject can carry on afterwards, yet abiding by one rule of course: stay on topic! Thus, everything is kept on track and strictly related to the show and guest and topic and no other threads and topics of discussion are permitted in that CORE STAR SECTION of the forum.
Next, if you so desire, put all those other sections and threads which already exist into the basement ... AND, the basement IS WHAT IT IS! Essentially, the basement is where everyone that belongs to the community can go after the show and pursue their individual interests and topics, AND each new thread/topic/soapbox anyone creates is RULED by the creator.
The way all this would work is that in the ORR there would be threads for each individual show, and threads related to each guest and/or topic of each show. This would be the safe area, the civilized sandbox, which is ruled and regulated by the leader! No divergence is allow in there - it is kept strictly centered around the show, guest, and topic.
And then, if community members so desire, they can go into the basement and make war or peace with or over whatever they may want. Basically, if someone wants to start a thread about the virtues of sewing, they can start THEIR thread and do so there. And then, those that come along and only want to dis the virtues of sewing can be banished if they do so in that virtues thread because they didn't follow the rules for that thread. Of course those that might want to dis sewing can and should start their own thread, where they too can only solicit comments supporting their position be posted there too ... or they can allow whatever they want. Certainly if you are into sewing and want to talk about that, you should be able to without anyone getting in your face and disturbing your intentions.
This should make everyone happy while keeping dissenting views and so-called trolls out of threads where the thread starter wants to discuss ONLY the virtues of their topic with like minds with like values. (kind of like how you would toss republicans out of a demarcate convention/thread and suggest they go start their own convention/thread)
I'm not sure if I am making much sense here in explaining this sufficiently, but in this way everyone can have their cake and others can have their icing while staying out of each others face and intent. It is diversity with fences and cages (ha). AND, you still can maintain a primary core focus around the show and guests and topics which the ORR if for.
Essentially what I'm saying is that if you want to wave your flag, you should be able to do so without flag burners getting in your face .. and if you want to burn flags you can do so without the flag wavers coming along getting in your face too. It's like having children that can't all get along but you don't want to pick sides and toss anyone of them out, so you essentially send them each to their individual rooms in the basement and demand they stop getting in each others face while allowing them each their space. Kind of like that.
??
added:
basically I'm talking about one rule here: no dissenting views in anothers thread - go start your own thread ! and those that don't like dissenting or opposite views can simply stay out of that other thread.
added:
oh, and if the show is PRO FENSES AND BORDERS, then NO anti/dissenting views should be posted in the ORR threads either ! And if the show is about ANTI FENSES AND BORDER, then NO PRO/dissenting views should be posted in that thread either. Am I making any sense?
Make the ORR the CORE PRIMARY FEATURED SECTION of the forum, much like the ORR already is, except it is expanded in this way: Basically, each night a thread is started where participants can discuss the show and the topic and guest in question - like how it is now. Then, after the show is over, open a follow-up thread related to the topic (if it doesn't already exist already because of a previous similar show) where those that want to continue their discussion about this subject can carry on afterwards, yet abiding by one rule of course: stay on topic! Thus, everything is kept on track and strictly related to the show and guest and topic and no other threads and topics of discussion are permitted in that CORE STAR SECTION of the forum.
Next, if you so desire, put all those other sections and threads which already exist into the basement ... AND, the basement IS WHAT IT IS! Essentially, the basement is where everyone that belongs to the community can go after the show and pursue their individual interests and topics, AND each new thread/topic/soapbox anyone creates is RULED by the creator.
The way all this would work is that in the ORR there would be threads for each individual show, and threads related to each guest and/or topic of each show. This would be the safe area, the civilized sandbox, which is ruled and regulated by the leader! No divergence is allow in there - it is kept strictly centered around the show, guest, and topic.
And then, if community members so desire, they can go into the basement and make war or peace with or over whatever they may want. Basically, if someone wants to start a thread about the virtues of sewing, they can start THEIR thread and do so there. And then, those that come along and only want to dis the virtues of sewing can be banished if they do so in that virtues thread because they didn't follow the rules for that thread. Of course those that might want to dis sewing can and should start their own thread, where they too can only solicit comments supporting their position be posted there too ... or they can allow whatever they want. Certainly if you are into sewing and want to talk about that, you should be able to without anyone getting in your face and disturbing your intentions.
This should make everyone happy while keeping dissenting views and so-called trolls out of threads where the thread starter wants to discuss ONLY the virtues of their topic with like minds with like values. (kind of like how you would toss republicans out of a demarcate convention/thread and suggest they go start their own convention/thread)
I'm not sure if I am making much sense here in explaining this sufficiently, but in this way everyone can have their cake and others can have their icing while staying out of each others face and intent. It is diversity with fences and cages (ha). AND, you still can maintain a primary core focus around the show and guests and topics which the ORR if for.
Essentially what I'm saying is that if you want to wave your flag, you should be able to do so without flag burners getting in your face .. and if you want to burn flags you can do so without the flag wavers coming along getting in your face too. It's like having children that can't all get along but you don't want to pick sides and toss anyone of them out, so you essentially send them each to their individual rooms in the basement and demand they stop getting in each others face while allowing them each their space. Kind of like that.
??
added:
basically I'm talking about one rule here: no dissenting views in anothers thread - go start your own thread ! and those that don't like dissenting or opposite views can simply stay out of that other thread.
added:
oh, and if the show is PRO FENSES AND BORDERS, then NO anti/dissenting views should be posted in the ORR threads either ! And if the show is about ANTI FENSES AND BORDER, then NO PRO/dissenting views should be posted in that thread either. Am I making any sense?
Last edited by Divinorumus on 03-08-2007 07:36 AM, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Comments on Fantastic Forum
Linnea wrote: Have been giving a lot of thought to some of these issues. Instead of freedom of speech, we could look at freedom of expression - within a community. Maybe that is where we should look, and we would need a definition of what that community is.
these two quotes, from members of the FF, says it all for me....
cherry wrote: A leader is useless when he acts against the prompting of his own conscience, surrounded as he must be by people holding all kinds of views. He will drift like an anchorless ship, if he has not the inner voice to hold him firm and guide him.
Gandhi
and....
Sam.I'm.Not wrote: Our contry is a democratic republic with a consitutional right to free speach. The FF forum is a privetly owned place the exists by the good grases and hard work of it owners. There is no right to free speach here. As I tell my son you country is a republic this house is a olagarcy and you have what rights your mother and I give you.