Bush cancels Switzerland visit due to threat of torture pros

[Linnea]

With all the US rhetoric regarding freedom and democratic processes - why are we still dealing with this?

GENEVA, Feb 5 (Reuters) - Former U.S. President George W. Bush has cancelled a visit to Switzerland, where he was to address a Jewish charity gala, due to the risk of legal action against him for alleged torture, rights groups said on Saturday.

Bush was to be the keynote speaker at Keren Hayesod's annual dinner on Feb. 12 in Geneva. But pressure has been building on the Swiss government to arrest him and open a criminal investigation if he enters the Alpine country.

Criminal complaints against Bush alleging torture have been lodged in Geneva, court officials say.

Human rights groups said they had intended to submit a 2,500-page case against Bush in the Swiss city on Monday for alleged mistreatment of suspected militants at Guantanamo Bay, the U.S. naval base in Cuba where captives from Afghanistan, Iraq and other fronts in the so-called War on Terror were interned...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/0 ... 19175.html

[Cherry Kelly]

So much for Switzerland and their "neutrality" claims.

Still could hook-up a live feed for a tv broadcast speech.

[Rombaldi]

With all the US rhetoric regarding freedom and democratic processes - why are we still dealing with this?

Because Shrub is a War Criminal and needs to be in the dock at the Hauge.. rule of law and all that???

[Linnea]

Rom, sorry. I should have said why have we not dealt with this issue yet? Why haven't the American people made it clear to the American govt that this needs to be resolved...

Are we just whistling in the wind here?

I do realize that a significant portion of the American public does not believe 'water boarding' and other practices are torture - but we need an official investigation and official public forum on this. Do you think? Otherwise we are just hanging out in ambiguity.

[Bobbi Snow]

No one is willing to address this situation here, because of all the OTHER fall-out that would tumble into public knowledge. I have a feeling if we began with even one thread of investigation, the garment of America would unravel. If the world (let alone just America) were to be given the whole truth about everything for the past 70 years, this country would be destroyed, along with a lot of others. So... every administration, once they become aware of even just a fraction of the corruption, decides to let sleeping dogs lie sleeping. And they go on to try to do their share to make things better without lifting up the rug where all the dirt's been swept.

[kbot]

I have to agree with you Bobbi, because once that Pandora's Box is opened, then where do you stop? I honestly believe that a case can be made against Bush, but, then, what will stop the next case from being brought forward? The US made a public show at Nuremberg, but, couldn't a similar case be made - at the World Court level, against JKF, LBJ and Nixon over Vetnam? Do we really want to go down this road? Or how about Bhopal, India and Dow Chemical - seems that that case is still out there, largely forgotten by the American emdia, but I am sure that there a many in India who aestill living with that disaster.......

[SquidInk]

Where do you stop?

The answer is simple in my opinion. Each time the law is broken, the responsible parties are held accountable. Then as time goes on, there will be a strong deterrent in place so that people in charge of chemical corporations & military forces understand they will be held fully accountable for their actions.

This must be preceded by the elimination of arrangements which allow for the shielding of assets, the limiting of liability, and the convenient overlooking of war crimes.

If we are truly exceptional in America, then we can start by holding our elected people to exceptionally high standards, and imposing exceptionally harsh punishments for even the slightest transgressions of the public trust.

We have never held elected ones accountable. The Bush and Obama administrations are both guilty of crimes against the public. They have abused the public trust, and should be held responsible for their actions.

Why are the Swiss ahead of 'the greatest democracy the world has ever known' on this issue? The answer is actually quite simple, and quite disturbing.

[Rombaldi]

So much for Switzerland and their "neutrality" claims.

Yes, it shows that NO MATTER WHO the criminal is, they will attempt to pursue..

.. or you have a problem with WAR CRIMES being punished?

[racehorse]

Yes, it shows that NO MATTER WHO the criminal is, . . . ?

Roman Polanski!

[kbot]

I, personally, have no problem with prosecuting criminals. Look at Israel has been able to accomplish with Holocaust conspirators. But, key difference, Israel has had to have Mossad track down these individuals and bring them to Israel for prosecution.

Also, we're talking apples and oranges here. On the one hand, we have the Swiss with an order to arrest Bush provided he visits that country. That is far different than a US court issuing a warrant for his (or any other politicans) arrest here at home.

And then, what is enforceable? Aren't some office holders shielded from prosecution by virtue of their position? If he were alive today, how many here don't think for an instant that Truman wouldn't be hauled into court by the Japanese for crimes against humanity? JFK blockaded Cuba - a violation of international law, and an act of war to boot. Then there is the School of the Americas which has been operating since 1946. This facility has trained what are basically assassins which we have set upon the world. http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Terrorism/SOA.html. It's based at Fort Benning, Georgia. So, do we prosecute and lock-up every Commander in Chief from Truman on down to Obama?

I can go on, starting with the violation of every US Government - American Indian treaty ever signed, but, what is the root issue here? To actually prosecute? It'll never happen. Doesn't mean that it shouldn't - but the only way political leaders are ever prosecuted is due to a war being resolved. Even then, we'd have a tit-for-tat ("You threaten to arrest me, and I'll threaten to arrest you!!!) mindset. And, how difficult would it be to manufacture evidence ayway?

Maybe after we get involved in a war with China, but by then, all the offenders will be gone.....

[SquidInk]

Roman Polanski!

Great point.

[Rombaldi]

Great point.

Yes, he caused tens of thousands of people to be killed and let his cronies steal billions, almost bankrupting this country.

[Rombaldi]

Roman Polanski!

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/13/movie ... r=1&src=mv

(snip)

Switzerland announced Monday that it would not extradite Mr. Polanski, a famous film director, to the United States in part because of fresh doubts over the conduct of the judge in his original trial.

(snip)

The French foreign minister, Bernard Kouchner, said he was “delighted” and deeply relieved by the ruling. Samantha Geimer, who at 13 was Mr. Polanski’s victim in the original sex case, has long disclosed her identity and called to end the prosecution.

(snip)

All of the original charges against Mr. Polanski are still pending, Mr. Cooley noted, because he was never sentenced under a plea agreement that reduced those to just unlawful sex with a minor.

(snip)

The turning point in the case occurred in mid-March, when Mr. Polanski’s lawyers disclosed in an appeals brief that Roger Gunson, a now-retired lawyer who originally prosecuted the case, had given sealed testimony describing a plan by Judge Laurence J. Rittenband, the original judge, to limit Mr. Polanski’s sentence to a 90-day psychiatric evaluation, a portion of which Mr. Polanski had served during his 42 days in Chino State Prison.

(snip)

The Swiss authorities, without success, requested access to the Gunson account, arguing that it would have established whether the judge had assured Mr. Polanski that time he spent in a psychiatric unit would constitute the whole of his period of imprisonment.

“If this were the case, Roman Polanski would actually have already served his sentence, and therefore both the proceedings on which the U.S. extradition request is founded and the request itself would have no foundation,” the Swiss Justice Ministry said in a statement.

-----

Gosh gee whiz.... they looked at the facts...

[SquidInk]

Yes, he caused tens of thousands of people to be killed and let his cronies steal billions, almost bankrupting this country.

That is also a very good point.

But a crime is a crime. What's good for the apparent rapist, is good for the apparent global mass murderer (imho)

[cherry]

The United States will not torture.


President Barack Obama