The Birthers have gone off the rails

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HB3
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Post by HB3 » 04-28-2011 01:00 PM

SETIsLady wrote: I can't remember in my life a President ever being asked to show his birth certificate. If I am wrong please correct me.

There are only two reasons that its happening now, it’s because he is black or because of his name, imo.


Hmm...this repeated question has been nagging me...what did it remind me of? Oh yeah! The last presidential election!
McCain's citizenship called into question
Candidate, born in Panama Canal Zone, may not qualify as 'natural born'

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., and his advisers are doing their best to brush aside questions — raised in the liberal blogosphere — about whether he is qualified under the Constitution to be president. But many legal scholars and government lawyers say it's a serious question with no clear answer.

The problem arises from a phrase in the Constitution setting out who is eligible to be president. Article II, which also specifies that a person must be at least 35 years old, says "No person except a natural born Citizen" can be president.

Sen. McCain is undoubtedly a citizen. He was born on Aug. 29, 1936, in the Panama Canal Zone, and Congress has specifically provided that anyone born there of U.S. parents, as he was, is a citizen. Indeed, the general rule is that anyone born of U.S. parents outside the United States is a citizen.

But is John McCain a natural born citizen? The Constitution does not define the term further, and legal scholars say the notes of the Constitution's drafters shed little light on what they meant. It seems clear only that the founders wanted to make certain that whoever was president would be loyal to the U.S. alone and not to some other country. But the term "natural born citizen," many scholars say, was not in common use at the time the Constitution was written.

Sen. McCain's supporters draw some comfort from a law passed in 1790 by the first Congress. It provided that the children of US citizens born outside the US "shall be considered as natural born citizens." The law is no longer in effect, but it provides some guidance on what the founders had in mind at the time of the Constitution.

And some legal experts find it hard to believe the founders would have considered their own children, if born overseas, to be ineligible for the presidency.

"If John and Abigail Adams were sent to France on a diplomatic mission, I find it inconceivable that they would have thought their children were not natural born citizens," said Professor John Parry of Lewis and Clark Law School.

Issue has come up before

This issue has been raised before in the presidential campaigns of Barry Goldwater, born in Arizona territory not the United States, and George Romney, born in Mexico. But it was never resolved.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23415028/ns/nightly_news/
Last edited by HB3 on 04-28-2011 01:04 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by SETIsLady » 04-28-2011 01:23 PM

Well we never saw the birth certificate, however I never questioned him. I never saw George Bush’s certificate, never saw Clintons, never saw Reagan’s. No one asked for them so why is that ? It is just assumed because they have a nice American name and they are white that they are Americans ? This goes along the same lines that everyone that is brown or speaks Spanish is illegal and should be treated as such.

This whole thing is a circus side show and an embarrassment for this Country. Trump claims no one in the world takes us seriously, he is part of the problem.
Last edited by SETIsLady on 04-28-2011 01:31 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by HB3 » 04-28-2011 01:37 PM

SETIsLady wrote: It is just assumed because they have a nice American name and they are white that they are Americans?


By everyone's admission, Obama's father was not a natural born citizen, so that immediately re-raises the issue, which, as the article I quoted above notes, has never been fully resolved.

McCain and the RNC were actually sued over this issue during the election to stop his candidacy; I guess the Supreme Court never took the case, so, as noted, the legal gray area remains unresolved. But, clearly, had he won, issues regarding his citizenship would not have gone away.

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Post by Cherry Kelly » 04-28-2011 01:59 PM

A nice American name - many years ago - following the Civil War, many former slaves took the last names of their formers owners. Why?- because they had been very well treated by those owners. Some years ago, there was a very famous black American Gayle (not sure of spelling of his first name) Sayre (football player) - his family took the name Sayre from the white plantation owner.
Now as for the "black" - Obama is half-black. I have seen Native American Indians whose features are much darker in complexion. Yes with curly hair as well.

So lets not even attempt to go that route - okay?!

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Post by Rombaldi » 04-28-2011 09:48 PM

HB3 wrote: By everyone's admission, Obama's father was not a natural born citizen, so that immediately re-raises the issue, which, as the article I quoted above notes, has never been fully resolved.


His mother was a US Citizen.
He was born in the US.
He's a natural-born Citizen.

There IS no issue to be re-raised except by the feeble-minded, racists and bigots that can't stand the fact that a black man won the presidency.

Deal. With. It.

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Republican - re·pub·li·can (r-pbl-kn) - political party, which will control part of Congress 2011-2012, undermining the strength of the country - on purpose, in public, without apology or shame - simply for a campaign advantage in 2012.

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Post by HB3 » 04-29-2011 01:04 PM

SETIsLady wrote: Well we never saw the birth certificate, however I never questioned him. I never saw George Bush’s certificate, never saw Clintons, never saw Reagan’s. No one asked for them so why is that ? It is just assumed because they have a nice American name and they are white that they are Americans ? This goes along the same lines that everyone that is brown or speaks Spanish is illegal and should be treated as such.


Or Canadian.
Both CBS Evening News anchor Katie Couric and MSNBC host Andrea Mitchell incorrectly asserted that President Obama is the only president in U.S. history who has had his citizenship doubted. In reality, both CBSNews.com and MSNBC.com posted a 2009 Associated Press article that detailed 21st President Chester A. Arthur having to deal with a similar controversy in the 1880 presidential campaign.

On Wednesday's CBS Evening News, outgoing anchor Katie Couric began the broadcast by declaring: "It was an extraordinary moment, President Obama went on national television today and did what no other president has ever even been asked to do, prove he's a natural born U.S. citizen." On Thursday's Andrea Mitchell Reports on MSNBC, host Andrea Mitchell similarly proclaimed: "I mean, people who want to raise these conspiracy theorists – theories – and there is no other explanation other than, you know, sort of pure racism, because it's never been raised about a white president."

As the August 2009 Associated Press article explained: "Long before 'birthers' began questioning the citizenship of President Barack Obama, similar questions were raised about the early years of Arthur, an accidental president who ascended to the job after President James Garfield was assassinated."

The article goes on to note specific calls for Arthur prove his American birth: "According to historical accounts, Republican bosses wanted him to provide proof of his birthplace, but he never did. Democrats, meanwhile, hired a lawyer named Arthur Hinman who sought to discredit Arthur, claiming he was born in Dunham, Quebec, about 47 miles north of Fairfield [Vermont]."
http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/kyle-d ... z1Kw75FWLc

Pretty interesting. The original page quoted above contains links to the CBS and MSNBC articles.

To me, this reaffirms that, had McCain won, he would've been subjected to similar questioning...but I believe he presented his birth certificate right away, didn't he?
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Post by HB3 » 04-29-2011 01:18 PM

Rombaldi wrote: There IS no issue to be re-raised except by the feeble-minded, racists and bigots that can't stand the fact that a black man won the presidency.


Or a Canadian.

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Post by Riddick » 04-29-2011 08:02 PM

HB3 wrote:
Live365 wrote: http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=292213
'Obama blinked. Now game begins'


I like this...for the first time I'm actually enjoying this story.
Enjoying the story eh? Hey why not? Y'know on an intellectual level, George Carlin was one to speak the same of the greatest 'Freak Show' on Earth, the greatest thing about it as he observed, being native-born in the U.S. of A. guarantees you a front-row ticket (as well as the standard membership in the show's global-spanning cast!)

Though perhaps not as satisfying in a strict entertainment sense, my guess is if this latest USofA political freakshow revelation and subsequent reaction indeed proves anything to any further degree it would be as much or more as has ever been, there's a significant segment of America's general public that remains both sufficiently distracted and captivated all-around by the (dis)infotainment and spectacle supplied by and surrounding the current resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue as well as all the rest of the members of our ostensibly representative ruling pathocracy -

So far as how such as might be the case, both right AND left I'd say much of the appeal of the goings-on in politics and D.C. nowadays IS in some way comparable to the wide popularity of TV "reality" shows, THOUGH IMHO strangely enough as in the UN-real world of pro-'rasslin' there's actually way more fiction than fact to be found in the heavily scripted and choreographed proceedings; then on top of that, in the face of such all too often the reporting media follow the motto of "never let actual facts (such as may or may not exist) get in the way of telling a good story!"

Resisting efforts at any public release of a long-form document as they did up to now, Obama and his peeps certainly produced mucho mileage in dramatics and theatrics from the "birth certificate" storyline - though, beyond what political profit came out from the issue's divisive nature, what else exactly WAS the whole point of prolonging resolution? Oh well, it's like Flip Wilson's Geraldine would say 'what you see IS what you get': What we see is the 'official' version of the political show, what we don't get is the real deal on 'behind-the-scenes' activities of officeholders and Carlin's 'Real Owners of America!' Anyone or anything acting against the interests of the owners isn't likely to last long.

Still, I'd not go so far to say we've seen the final curtain come down on this chapter of the show, indeed mayhap the two-party gamesmanship has only just begun: Trump now arguably in an I-got-it-done role possibly playing gameshow MC, OTHER contested or brought into question elements of the official life-story of Barry Soetoro/Barack Obama subsequent-to-birth could come under ever-more scrutiny, potentially providing polarizing professional political pundits on BOTH sides of the program panel with ample squawking points that pass for actual discourse but are just grist for the (as-usual run-of-the) milled mush

What else can I tell ya, if in resemblance TO a game the personal-history document existence and disclosure issue HAS put Obama in the apparent position of an "I've Got a Secret" electoral edition participant: What modern presidency HASN'T had red herrings, dirty linen OR closets full of skeletons? It's what it takes!! IMHO as a basic bottom-line disqualifier, all things considered I pretty much agree with what Douglas Adams said: those capable of getting elected President, by any and all means, ought never be allowed to do the job

Well then, in summary my Fabulous Fellow Freak Folks, "To Tell the Truth" I can't say precisely where any OR all past or present Bats-in-the-Beltway style "Shenanigans" are headed from here - still, the way things are going I'd not be surprised at all one way or another if along the re-election road into 2012, we find the entire campaign field on both sides as well as the entire country chin-deep in "Double Jeopardy!"

But cheer up. Things could be worse. Actually at the current rate and direction odds are things WILL be worse for the public at large, so THERE YA GO!! Smile all the while and enjoy your front-row view of the Greatest and Grandest Freak Show YET, bigger and better than ever and brought to you by America's Real Owners -

It's The End of The World As We Know It
Come for the Chaos, Stay for the Disinfotainment!

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Post by Iris » 04-29-2011 09:10 PM

This week Obama released his official birth certificate -- which once and for all silenced everyone who was saying that if it were released, the birthers would shut up. ;)
We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. B. Franklin

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Post by Raggedyann » 04-29-2011 09:43 PM

Iris wrote: This week Obama released his official birth certificate -- which once and for all silenced everyone who was saying that if it were released, the birthers would shut up. ;)

Can we call them "Afterbirthers" now?

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Post by Iris » 04-29-2011 09:52 PM

Hahaha good one! :D


Boycott Donald Punk

Democrats all over the country are tired of laying down and taking it, and are becoming active on their own. If you are offended by Trump's blatant racism, go to http://dumpthedonald.com/. You can click on the graphic to sign the petition on the right.

Groupon and Clorox have already agreed to stop advertising on The Apprentice.
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Post by kbot » 04-30-2011 12:31 PM

Did anypne catch Michelle Bachman's latest appearance in New Hamsphire where she presented all the areas she wants cuts? It was fairly extensive ranging from Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, to defense, to subsidies to oil, agribusiness, corporations, getting the government out of subsidizing businesses, generally........ On the one hand I'm thinking, this might actually be good. On the other hand I'm thinking, there is NO WAY this will work.

At least it's a distraction from the Birther Freak Show.......

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Post by Jon-Marcus » 04-30-2011 05:07 PM

I'm mostly with you on this, Kbot.
I've thought for years that oil corps, auto industry, and airlines should NOT be propped up by the fed gov. If they can't function on their own ... fold up, get out of the way and let someone else give it a go. That's how it works for small businesses.
Unfortunately, that's not going to happen, especially with Big Oil. They pump ( pardon the pun) far too much money into the pockets of congressmen, by way of lobbyists, for the gov to ever make them stand on their own.
And it's the members of the House of Representatives ( Electoral Collage) that elect Presidents, not we the people. So as long as Big Oil and other mega-corps own congress, we "little people" are going to keep getting fracked over.

Anyone who doesn't believe that, look here;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_ ... _States%29
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Post by rumike » 04-30-2011 05:44 PM

Jon-Marcus, while I generally agree with you regarding the content of your post, the electoral college is made up of people who are involved in the party machines throughout the states. Not the House, although the House can elect a president under some special circumstance, although I'm too lazy to look it up.
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Post by SETIsLady » 04-30-2011 08:10 PM

Hi Jon, I didn't know if you saw the thread about Linnea, but she passed away today. I know a couple of people hadn't seen it and wanted to make sure you did..thats why I posted this here.

showthread.php?s=&threadid=44604

Not intended to stop the conversation here.
Last edited by SETIsLady on 04-30-2011 08:24 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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