The "Going Through Your Stuff" Issue

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kbot
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Post by kbot » 06-14-2013 10:43 AM

Cherry Kelly wrote: Gee the club is getting larger all the time...can I say whoopie.

Gee what do they want to know?? Me, myself and I are somewhere, anywhere and everywhere. hehehe

Seriously - then we should demand to know everything about them too ehh?


They say we can't....... "National security" don't you know........

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Post by Riddick » 06-14-2013 10:21 PM

kbot [/i] [quote][i]Originally posted by Cherry Kelly wrote: Gee the club is getting larger all the time...can I say whoopie.

Gee what do they want to know?? Me, myself and I are somewhere, anywhere and everywhere. hehehe

Seriously - then we should demand to know everything about them too ehh?

They say we can't....... "National security" don't you know........ [/quote] That's the continuing claim, yet at the same time inquiring minds in Congress would like to know what's going on without having to read about it in the papers - at some point of being consistently and deliberately left out of the loop, it becomes incumbent for the legislative branch of government to pose the question "why so secret?"

All the more administrations and agencies deny oversight, IMHO the Naked Truth becomes all the more clear that Big Brother's Wearing No Clothes -

When Privacy is Outlawed? Only Outlaws will Have Privacy
New surveillance technologies may put us all under glass, but those responsible will have to take the consequences

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Post by Cherry Kelly » 06-18-2013 03:15 PM

Thing is - congress critters don't READ - obvious by looking at the bill they pass -- without reading them...

---
SO when it makes NEWS - then the congress critters try to come up with excuses - where the plain truth - they did NOT read!!

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Post by Riddick » 06-18-2013 07:48 PM

What have we got for Congressmen, a bunch of Chauncey Gardeners?

Great. So not only don't they read, many fail to attend a live briefing -

Guess it's no issue of import, like say, a banking bailout or a pay raise!

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Post by Raggedyann » 06-18-2013 08:21 PM

Cherry Kelly wrote: Seriously - then we should demand to know everything about them too ehh?

Agreed! Only problem is, when somebody spills the beans for us, calls go out to have them arrested. :confused:
“For evil to flourish, it only requires good men to do nothing.” Simon Wiesenthal

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Post by Riddick » 06-18-2013 08:22 PM

Don't sweat the NSA programs, folks! Americans have nothing to worry about... Or is it possible the Prez is a liar?

Nah. He can be trusted. He's clearly delivered on his transparency promise. Don't believe it, just ask him - oh, wait, Charlie Rose already did -

Last edited by Riddick on 06-18-2013 09:10 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Riddick » 06-18-2013 10:41 PM

After an Easy Hearing, the NSA and FBI are Ready for a Drink

A hot mic at today's public Intelligence hearing caught the NSA Director and the FBI Deputy Director verbally high fiving it at the end of the hearing. "Tell your boss," NSA Director Keith Alexander told the FBI deputy director, "I owe him another friggin' beer."

Alexander: Thank you, Sean.

Joyce: Good to see you.

Alexander: Tell your boss ... tell your boss I owe him another friggin' beer.

Joyce: Him?

Alexander: Yeah.

Joyce: Tell him to give it to me.

Alexander: (laughs) You want him to give it to you?

Joyce: Alright?


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Post by Doka » 06-18-2013 10:53 PM

Riddick, I love the "Chauncey Gardener" referral, that does seem to fit a whole bunch of government peoples.
Karma Rules

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Post by kbot » 06-19-2013 05:42 AM

But wait...... There's more!!!!!!!

TMI: New Fusion Center failed to stop Boston bombing

WASHINGTON — Federal Fusion Centers — massive data-retention facilities funded in part by the Department of Homeland Security — have spread out across 77 cities, collaborating with local law-enforcement agencies to identify and defuse terrorist threats.

But the center in Massachusetts, an early adopter of the intelligence-gathering program, failed to stop the two accused Boston Marathon bombers. Indeed, in the run-up to the attack, officials acknowledged that the left arm of the law didn’t know what the right arm was doing.

Testifying at the House Homeland Security Committee this month, Boston Police Commissioner Edward Davis said he was unaware that the FBI had, in 2011, questioned one of the brothers implicated in the deadly street bombing.


THE SUSPECTS: Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev, left, and his brother Tamerlan Tsarnaev, were captured by video in the crowd. Tamerlan died during a shoot out with police.
“In a literal sense, the homeland security system that we built after 9/11 to protect the American people from terrorist attacks failed to stop the Tsarnaev brothers,” Sen. Joseph Lieberman, I-Conn., told the panel.

In 2004, then-Gov. Mitt Romney established the “Commonwealth Fusion Center” as part of a national effort to centralize and expand government’s ability to collect and retain personal information for the professed purpose of preventing terrorism.

Federal Fusion Center guidelines declare, “Leaders must move forward with a new paradigm on the exchange of information and intelligence.”

The American Civil Liberties Union calls the centers a “powerful intelligence data hub.”

“It makes a mountain of electronic information — from a wide array of public and commercial sources — available to law-enforcement officials, who can collect, share and comb through it, going far beyond the bounds of ordinary criminal investigations,” the ACLU said in a statement.

In Boston, that process produced more confusion than clarity.

Alongside the Massachusetts fusion center, the Boston Police Department ran a companion operation, the Boston Regional Intelligence Center.

Despite the bureaucratic overlap — or because of it — Davis testified that neither the city nor his department was told that Russian intelligence agents had explicitly warned U.S. officials about Tamerlan Tsarnaev.

“This is a case where redundancy actually creates intelligence gaps,” ACLU senior policy counsel Mike German told Watchdog.org from his Washington, D.C., office.

“Even as the FBI was working, the Boston Fusion Center was chasing around protesters” who had no connection to the terrorist attack, he said.

German scoffed at DHS’ assertion that fusion centers collect data from more than 1,000 investigations nationally each year.

“The threshold (for launching an investigation) has been lowered so much that the vast majority are false alarms,” German said, referencing Boston law-enforcement agents’ surveillance of anti-war protesters while the Tsarnaev brothers worked out of sight.

Massachusetts targets included the Greater Boston chapter of CodePink and the Veterans for Peace movement. Though the activists were not charged with any crime, officers filed reports with the Fusion Center under headings including “Criminal Act,” “Extremists,” “Civil Disturbance” and “HomeSec-Domestic.”

Critics, ranging from Democratic Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan to Oklahoma Republican Tom Coburn, accuse the fusion centers of doing little more than collecting “crap intelligence.”

“The volume overwhelms agents who have become accustomed to treating this as a check-the-boxes exercise. They move quickly on to the next one, rather than focusing on real threats,” German said.

Matt Mayer, a policy analyst at the conservative Heritage Foundation, said fusion centers could be more effective if the federal government was more focused.

“You have to be careful about having too much data. Piling up more hay just makes it harder to find the needle,” he said.

Mayer suggested that DHS is “under-resourcing the top 30 cities,” including Boston.

“We don’t need 77 fusion centers. Have half the number of fusion centers and put resources to the best effect,” he recommended.

U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said Wednesday that a wide-ranging probe into the Boston bombing investigation “is active and ongoing.”

Holder told the House Judiciary Committee he expects inspectors general from the Justice Department and intelligence agencies “will provide a good sense of who had what information, and whether or not it was properly distributed.”

Committee member Rep. Louis Gohmert, R-Texas, wasn’t so sanguine.

“The FBI blew an opportunity to save people’s lives,” he charged.

Holder disputed Gohmert’s assertion, tartly responding, “You cannot know what I know.”

[http://watchdog.org/86224/tmi-new-feder ... n-bombing/

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Post by Cherry Kelly » 06-19-2013 12:44 PM

and now after the BIG IRS scandal - what do we hear about?

IRS BONUS BABIES: IRS Workers to get 70M in bonuses - in spite of the scandal....

===

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Post by kbot » 06-19-2013 12:46 PM

Cherry Kelly wrote: and now after the BIG IRS scandal - what do we hear about?

IRS BONUS BABIES: IRS Workers to get 70M in bonuses - in spite of the scandal....

===


Isn't it funny how those in government always seem to do well even in tough economic times?

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Post by kbot » 06-21-2013 11:48 AM

And then, there's this........... So much for Obama's promise to "not be George W Bush".......:rolleyes:

But then, it's not as if we didn't know this already......


Politics More: The Guardian NSA Barack Obama Bush-Era NSA Director Says Obama 'Expanded' Surveillance Programs


The former director of the US National Security Agency has indicated that surveillance programs have "expanded" under Barack Obama's time in office and said the spy agency has more powers now than when he was in command.

Michael Hayden, who served most of his tenure as NSA director under George W Bush, said there was "incredible continuity" between the two presidents.

Hayden's comments came as the debate around the extent of government surveillance in the US and the UK intensified on Sunday. In Washington, some US senators demanded more transparency from the Obama administration. Libertarian Republican Rand Paul said he wanted to mount a supreme court challenge.

The British foreign secretary, William Hague, announced he would make a statement to parliament on Monday after the Guardian revealed that UK intelligence agencies used the US Prism system to generate intelligence reports.

Hague said it was "fanciful" and "nonsense" to suggest that the British monitoring service, GCHQ, would work with an agency in another country to circumvent restrictions on surveillance in the UK.

The issue dominated the Sunday talk shows on both sides of the Atlantic. On CNN, senator Mark Udall, one of the prominent Senate critics of US government surveillance, called for amendments to the Patriot Act, the controversial law brought in after the 9/11 attacks, to rein in the NSA's powers. "I'm calling for reopening the Patriot Act," Udall said. "The fact that every call I make to my friends or family is noted, the length, the date, that concerns me."

Udall, who has been privy to classified briefings about NSA data collection programs, said it was unclear to him that the surveillance initiatives had disrupted terrorist plots, as the administration has claimed.

He called on Obama's administration to make more information about the programs public. "The ultimate check, the ultimate balance is the American public understanding to what extent their calls are being collected, if only in the sense of metadata," he said. "Let's not have this law interpreted secretly, as it has been for the last number of years."

Udall's Democratic colleague Ron Wyden, who has had access to the same confidential briefings, and also spoken out over the surveillance programs, told the Guardian he believed the White House needed to address whether previous statements "are actually true".

"Since government officials have repeatedly told the public and Congress that Patriot Act authorities are simply analogous to a grand jury subpoena, and that intelligence agencies do not collect information or dossiers on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans, I think the executive branch has an obligation to explain whether or not these statements are actually true," Wyden said.

On Fox News, Paul, the Kentucky senator, said the disclosures were a wake-up call. "I'm going to be seeing if I can challenge this at the supreme court level," he said. "I'm going to be asking all the internet providers and all of the phone companies: ask your customers to join me in a class action lawsuit. If we get 10 million Americans saying we don't want our phone records looked at, then maybe someone will wake up and something will change in Washington."

Speaking on CNN, Republican senator John McCain defended the government's surveillance efforts, although he said members of Congress needed to be briefed in more detail about NSA activities. "If this was September 12, 2001, we might not be having the argument we are having today," he said. "Yes, perhaps there's been some overreach."

The Senate intelligence committee chairwoman, Dianne Feinstein, a Democrat, also justified the surveillance programs, arguing they were subject to congressional and judicial oversight and have contributed to the arrest to two terror suspects: David Headley and Najibullah Zazi.

Defending the practices on ABC's This Week, Feinstein said she flew over the World Trade Center in New York on the way to the funeral of Senator Frank Lautenberg. "I thought of those bodies jumping out of the building, hitting the canopy."

Hayden, who ran the NSA between 1999 and 2005, where, after September 11, he presided over the creation of secret, warrantless surveillance that collected information on Americans' communication, said the efforts had worked. "We've had two very different presidents pretty much doing the same thing with regard to electronic surveillance. That seems to me to suggest that these things do work."

Asked on Fox News Sunday how Obama had dealt with NSA programs since coming to office, Hayden replied: "In terms of surveillance? Expanded [the programs] in volume, changed the legal grounding for them a little bit – put it more under congressional authorisation rather than the president's Article 2 powers – and added a bit more oversight. But in terms of what NSA is doing, there is incredible continuity between the two presidents."

He added: "We've gotten more of these records over time. With the amendment to the Fisa Act, in 2008, which Senator Obama finally voted for, NSA is actually empowered to do more things than I was empowered to do under President Bush's special authorisation."

Hayden was confirmed as CIA director in 2006. Obama, who was a senator at the time, voted against Hayden's appointment, in protest against the NSA's surveillance on Americans.

Defending the mass collection of phone data from telecom providers, revealed on Wednesday when the Guardian published a secret court order requiring Verizon to data from millions of customers, Hayden said the NSA only stores the data for use in future terrorist investigations.

He said that safeguards were in place, ensuring there was always a "probable cause" or "arguable reason" before the database is scrutinised for intelligence about individuals connected to suspects.

Mike Rogers, the Republican chairman of the House intelligence committee, condemned the leaks and said the media's sources should be investigated for potential criminal activity.

"Taking a very sensitive classified program that targets foreign person on foreign lands, and putting just enough out there to be dangerous, is dangerous to us, it's dangerous to our national security and it violates the oath of which that person [the whisteblower] took," he told ABC's George Stephanopoulos. "I absolutely think they should be prosecuted."

Speaking on the BBC, Hague said the UK has enjoyed an "exceptional intelligence sharing relationship" with the US since the second world war. But he said that information from the US which is sent to Britain is governed by UK law.

Hague, who said he authorises operations by GCHQ most days of the week, said: "The idea that in GCHQ people are sitting working out how to circumvent a UK law with another agency in another country is fanciful. It is nonsense."

He said GCHQ, MI5 and MI6 were overseen by the relevant secretary of state, by the interception commission and by parliament's intelligence and security committee.

"If you are a law-abiding citizen of this country going about your business and your personal life you have nothing to fear – nothing to fear about the British state or intelligence agencies listening to the contents of your phone calls or anything like that. Indeed you will never be aware of all the things those agencies are doing to stop your identity being stolen and to stop a terrorist blowing you up tomorrow."

http://www.businessinsider.com/bush-era ... ams-2013-6

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Post by kbot » 06-21-2013 11:58 AM

Another example of "transparency" at work.......

Snippet:

I’ve set up a privacy and civil liberties oversight board, made up of independent citizens including some fierce civil libertarians," Obama told Charlie Rose in an interview that aired Monday. "I’ll be meeting with them. And what I want to do is to set up and structure a national conversation, not only about these two programs, but also the general problem of data, big data sets, because this is not going to be restricted to government entities."

The board, however, was funded eight years ago, and has remained largely powerless since then.

The panel was first suggested in the 2004 report by the 9/11 Commission, and was first launched that year. In 2007, the group was granted independent powers, but both Presidents George W. Bush and Obama resisted nominating members for years.


http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... first-time

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Post by Diogenes » 06-21-2013 01:24 PM

kbot wrote: Isn't it funny how those in government always seem to do well even in tough economic times?


Anyone with even a quarter of a brain has to admit the true elitists are these folks - when times are truly tough, times are never tough for them.
A man's character is his fate

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Post by kbot » 06-21-2013 01:47 PM

Diogenes wrote: Anyone with even a quarter of a brain has to admit the true elitists are these folks - when times are truly tough, times are never tough for them.


Funny how that works out? The IRS collects the taxes, and then gives themselves bonuses. Congress gets automatic pay increases while people who collect social security see their checks decrease over time. The sad part is, we put-up with this crap.....

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