Democrats Don't Understand why they are not Winning

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seattlegal
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Post by seattlegal » 11-16-2004 12:07 AM

The GOP never MOVES to the CEnter why should we? No one lives there folks! It's no-man's land.


Most Americans live there. It's not easy living between the snarling left and right.
Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will.
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Mercury
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Post by Mercury » 11-16-2004 12:16 AM

Seattlegal, W.T.F? Excuse me, but from what I've read YOU live on the Right. Am I wrong?

Anyway, the GOP uses the "center" word only as a diversionary and convenient trojan-horse-in-drag trick to disguise and make more palatable to the ignorant and unwashed their party's reflexive and ingraned pro-rich/ pro-power policies.. That fake "we're all just regular middle american folks" stuff does SOOO NOT work on me. I know the truth...They would step over my dead body to get to the next hole at their country club's fabulous exclusive golf course.
Last edited by Mercury on 11-16-2004 12:25 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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seattlegal
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Post by seattlegal » 11-16-2004 12:28 AM

Mercury wrote: Seattlegall, Excuse me, but from what I've read YOU live on the Right. Am I wrong?

The GOP uses the "center" word only as a diversionary and convenient trojan-horse- in-drag trick to disguise and make more palatable to the ignorant and unwashed their party's reflexive and ingraned pro-rich/ pro-power policies.. That fake "we're all just regular middle americans" stuff does SOOO NOT work on me.


I'm neither democrat nor republican. On the political compass, I'm moderate, with libertarian leanings. I see government as a necessary evil. Perhaps I seem so far to the right to you because you are so far left.

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Yes we understand...

Post by Lord Moon » 11-16-2004 01:27 AM

Yes we do understand why we lost, it's called voter fraud....

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Post by Cherry Kelly » 11-16-2004 12:44 PM

Lord Moon -- voter fraud -- you can't blame ONE side only for such - open your eyes and see that it exists everywhere, from all political groups. Disgusting yes -- and should have something done about it... but saying its just ONE sided... nope.

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Post by NeelyGirl » 11-16-2004 12:52 PM

Hey Merc, I have been thinking about this, have had a couple of weeks now.

I can't remember where I heard it first<some "Talk show">. But Democrats need to "make" more Democrats. Does that make sense?

There is no use in straddling the "center" and trying to appease the the extreme right. Be strong in the beliefs and convictions, and NEW democrats will be born.

I had no problem with Howard Dean. We in fact, may actually need more Howard Deans in the party.

Okay don't know if that made any sense, not making much lately.
:(
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Post by LisaA » 11-16-2004 07:56 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mercury
I understand why we are not winning.

useful idiots (i.e. the 20-mill religious nutcases) who keep putting the GOP in power


We feel loved. That's why we useful idiots of the right re-elected President Bush. He's nice to me. No other reason.

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Post by Iris » 11-16-2004 10:37 PM

Cherry Kelly wrote: Lord Moon -- voter fraud -- you can't blame ONE side only for such - open your eyes and see that it exists everywhere, from all political groups. Disgusting yes -- and should have something done about it... but saying its just ONE sided... nope.
Really? I've been hearing/reading for days that all of the "errors" they're finding favor Bush. Could you please give us some examples of where they favored Kerry? Thanks.
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Post by Mercury » 11-16-2004 10:48 PM

NeelyGirl said: "But Democrats need to "make" more Democrats. Does that make sense?"


Neely, yes it sure does make sense. And is exactly what needs to be done. Showing people how their own self interest is better served by voting DEM than GOP is the only way to make more DEMs.

RICH folks vote GOP BECAUSE it is in their own self interest. However, when it comes to us, we are NOT SUPPOSED to think like that! So, the GOP skillfully uses fake hot-button social issues to divert attention from what really matters. The GOP exists to serve the interests of big $ and that's about all. THE Dems need to show again very clearly how they represent the interests of the majority Middle Class (and show how the GOP is the fat cat party).

Right now 1/2 the middle class is in denial about what the GOP is up to... but after a few more years of Bush, a few more years of lost jobs, rich getting richer, wages for the midlle falling, unlimited cheap labor pushing down wages, tax cuts that go only to the top, endless wars, etc, the Middle Class will be ripe for a wake-up call.

The DEMs need to stop being afraid when the GOP accuses them of class warfare. (THE WAR HAS ALREADY BEGUN! THE GOP has been waging Class Warfare against the middle and lower class for decades!- and the DEMS should be proud to fight back!) Acting like 2nd class Republicans will get the Democrats nowhere. We should reclaim the spirit of reform and economic justice which the party embraced from the time of FDR through LBJ. I think Howard Dean understands this, and that's why I was so enthusiastic about him.

Just like the Republicans, we too should make "NO MORE COMPROMISE, STICK TO THE PARTY'S PROGRAM" our motto too.
Last edited by Mercury on 11-16-2004 10:55 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Mercury » 11-16-2004 10:58 PM

Seattlegal said: "On the political compass, I'm moderate, with libertarian leanings. I see government as a necessary evil. Perhaps I seem so far to the right to you because you are so far left."
If you say you have libertarian leanings, that's about as far RIGHT as you can get. Under Lilbertarian rule, who has the $ has the power. There is no government or group of citizens to counter that power. We had libertarian rule already ... it was called Feudalism.

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Post by seattlegal » 11-17-2004 12:17 AM

Mercury wrote: If you say you have libertarian leanings, that's about as far RIGHT as you can get. Under Lilbertarian rule, who has the $ has the power. There is no government or group of citizens to counter that power. We had libertarian rule already ... it was called Feudalism.
I'm not a libertarian, either. My libertarian leanings consist of a desire for a smaller, weaker Federal government that is fiscally responsible and will not run over the rights of the citizens. Like I said, I'm moderate.
Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will.
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Post by fabzilla » 11-17-2004 03:33 AM

Mercury wrote: If you say you have libertarian leanings, that's about as far RIGHT as you can get. Under Lilbertarian rule, who has the $ has the power. There is no government or group of citizens to counter that power. We had libertarian rule already ... it was called Feudalism.

Gov't sole purpose should be defending the Constitution and our nation's security. That's IT. Not this micro managed fiasco of a few flakes working together creating an avalanche of oppression, slavery and addiction on the people THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO SERVE. We are supposed to have the "power" they have installed on the cacaphony of special interests that are bringing us to our demise.WTF.

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Post by Mercury » 11-17-2004 10:51 AM

fabzilla said: "Gov't sole purpose should be defending the Constitution and our nation's security. That's IT."


Leaving all of us at the mercy of big $ and big $.... no thanks. I'd prefer to have govt as our elected counterbalance to those private rich and powerful corporate forces which would trample on a hell of a lot more of our rights than the govt ever did.

Image Walmart with no govt to keep them in shape? 2cent per hour pay, 90 hour work week, etc, etc...

fabzilla said :"We are supposed to have the "power..."

We'll you don't. But you wouldn't have even LESS power under a stripped down libertarian small govt system.

You would have less power, because your vote would no longer mean much in terms of setting rules and regs for how society is governed (because govt would no longer set those rules). All "real" power would shift to those with the most clout i.e. MONEY! It is already true that Money IS Power... and with no govt to interevene it would only get worse.
Last edited by Mercury on 11-17-2004 11:01 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Mercury » 11-17-2004 11:07 AM

Seattlegal "...a desire for a smaller, weaker Federal government that is fiscally responsible and will not run over the rights of the citizens."

Seattlegal, we hear so much rhetoric about the 'govt running over the rights of citizens,' but isn't it REALLY corporate america which runs over more peoples rights in daily life?

Also, for most people it is their employers who dominate, drug test, dictate and control much more of their lives than the govermnet does. (How many times a day do I come up against a govt rule vs the number of "private industry" rules i have to cope with!? 0 to 50! )

If government ceased to exist entirely we'd still be controlled... only NOW it would be the big refinery down the street poluting your air who would control you (by forcing you to move or choke to death), and your boss (if you have one) could make you work 80 hr weeks, or it would be the company that pays your mother 3cents an hour and steals her retirement so she has to work to age 90 (or have you support her), or it would be the unregulated drug company which would sell you dangerous and expensive crap which kills your kids because they cut corners on testing and you no longer have a right to sue them...etc...etc..
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Post by spaceprophet » 11-17-2004 11:57 AM

I can't think of a better example of a mini-dictatorship than most employers. Free speech absolutely does not exist at the workplace in America. Just try criticizing (even constructively) your boss and see where it gets you.

The problems with lifting regulations on corporate America are the very reasons Mercury listed. More pollution, more exploitation, more white collar crime, more corporate swindling, unions become neutered, the labor force is victimized, and the consumer is taken to the cleaners through profiteering and price gouging.

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