Greece? No, London.

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SquidInk
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Greece? No, London.

Post by SquidInk » 12-12-2010 11:49 AM

Here come the people - and the people want some cheap degrees! A new Napoleon waits in the shadows - attrition versus maneuver. WikiLeaks is analogous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRKcPZt61SQ
Mass demonstrations by thousands of students and trade unionists in central London against an increase in tuition fees, are growing more violent. It's the latest and the largest in a string of rallies against sweeping austerity measures and budget cuts across Europe. What started as a relatively peaceful march later turned into violent clashes with the police, which is largely outnumbered by the demonstrators.


Maybe the cops should stop beating on people for a sec, and pass out J.T. Gatto books.

Oh well. What will you do when your neighborhood looks like this?
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Post by Joolz » 12-13-2010 05:45 AM

Yeah, I've been reading about this the past couple of days. They voted to TRIPLE students' tuition. I guess I'd be P.O.'d a bit, too, if I were one of them. We've had our tuition raised substantially here in CA (and there were some student protests and demonstrations, although not riots), but not TRIPLED all at once like that.

They rioted in Parliament Square (I think that's where the majority of it took place?), broke out windows in the Treasury, and attacked the limo in which Prince Charles and Camilla were riding to the ballet (think they broke a window out in that car, too) while chanting "off with their heads." Camilla looked pretty freaked. I'll be interested to hear what some of my British friends have to say about what went on.
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Post by Saharaka » 12-13-2010 12:07 PM

For a moment while watching this video I could have sworn the police looked like roman soldiers thrusting swords against the masses. I have to say England really knows how to throw a riot!
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Post by kbot » 12-13-2010 12:31 PM

As I was listening to the news reports about the rioting in England, I recalled some conversations my wife and I had with a tour guide and his wife that we met while on a cruise. This was in 1989. They were disgusted at the amount of money they were being forced to pay for the upkeep of the monarchy. Like all Brits, they had to fork over some of their pay to maintain the royals in the life style they felt was necessary for them to maintain. Since then, we have all become much more familiar with the antics of the royals, so, yes, I can see where people would be upset to the point of rioting.

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Post by Raggedyann » 12-13-2010 12:36 PM

It's time for Britain to do away with the Royals. They serve no purpose what-so-ever. Parasites on society. I was born and raised in England and most people I know think they are a waste of tax payers money.
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Post by Live365 » 12-13-2010 01:06 PM

From what I remember being told by European colleagues in the 80's (not many around anymore. These days most "foreign" students/scientists are Chinese or Indian. But that's another conversation), their system was the opposite of ours: University was relatively "free", but not everyone had the chance to go. In some cases it was decided as early as grade school whether or not you were the right material. As opposed to America, where everyone has a *chance* to go, but it requires a third mortgage on the house. So -- and yes, given that Europe is mostly socialist anymore anyway -- I too can see why there is upset over this. They are used to free education...it's the way their system works. As far as the monarchy, maybe once the kid marries the girl we can be done with all of it. Unless Elizabeth lives forever.
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Post by Cherry Kelly » 12-13-2010 02:35 PM

Tuition and other college costs have increased almost across the entire USA - and keeps rising.

BUT to triple?? That is a bit overboard for sure. I could understand an increase, but not a triple.

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Post by kbot » 12-14-2010 06:58 AM

Cherry Kelly wrote: Tuition and other college costs have increased almost across the entire USA - and keeps rising.

BUT to triple?? That is a bit overboard for sure. I could understand an increase, but not a triple.


I wonder if they have the tenure issues that we have in the US?

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Post by SquidInk » 12-14-2010 10:52 AM

Oddly, here in the land of the free, if this kind of thing were to be caught on video then those with the camera could be charged with "wiretapping". Who will guard the guards, indeed.
Police across the country are using decades-old wiretapping statutes that did not anticipate iPhones or Droids, combined with broadly written laws against obstructing or interfering with law enforcement, to arrest people who point microphones or video cameras at them.
...

In addition to arresting citizens with cameras for wiretapping, police can use vaguer catch-all charges, such as interfering with a police officer, refusing to obey a lawful order, or obstructing an arrest or police action. Such arrests are far more common. Even more frequent are incidents where police don’t make arrests but illegally confiscate cameras, delete photos and videos, or incorrectly warn camera-wielding citizens that they aren’t allowed to film.

One of the most disturbing examples of illegal confiscation came shortly after a recorded citizen-police encounter that shocked the country. On New Year’s Day 2009, in front of a large crowd, Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART) Officer Johannes Mehserle shot and killed 21-year-old Oscar Grant at point-blank range as Grant lay on his stomach in an Oakland subway station. Dozens of commuters captured the incident on their cell phones. Within hours, the first mass-recorded police killing of a U.S. citizen was posted all over the Internet. But immediately after the incident BART police attempted to confiscate the phones of subway riders, in at least one case chasing a cell phone owner onto a subway car. In most jurisdictions, including California, police aren’t permitted to confiscate a phone unless the phone itself was used in a crime. At best they can get the owner’s contact information in case they later need to subpoena photos or videos as evidence. - source


So in review, the cops can record anything they please a'la "COPS" the tv show, or riot squads with cameras on their helmets. Fed's can actually wiretap people without any kind of warrant. But if you and I are witnessing a crime or any other public incident in which a cop is involved, and we decide to ensure accountability on the part of the public official (doing business in public) then we can be charged with a class 1 felony wiretapping crime.

Believe me, having to pay triple tuition for a state sponsored brainwashing is the absolute least of these peoples' problems.

Maybe they're really rioting because they made a poor decision - spending tens of thousands of dollars/euros/pounds on an increasingly worthless/irrelevant "education". Maybe they've discovered all the borrowed tuition is merely the first step on the road to a life of perpetual debt to the system.
Employers and career experts see a growing problem in American society — an abundance of college graduates, many burdened with tuition-loan debt, heading into the work world with a degree that doesn't mean much anymore.

The problem isn't just a soft job market — it's an oversupply of graduates. In 1973, a bachelor's degree was more of a rarity, since just 47% of high school graduates went on to college. By October 2008, that number had risen to nearly 70%. For many Americans today, a trip through college is considered as much of a birthright as a driver's license.
...

What's not watered down is the tab. The cost of average tuition rose 6.5% this fall, and a report released on Dec. 1 by the Project on Student Debt showed that the IOU is getting bigger. Two-thirds of all students now leave college with outstanding loans; the average amount of debt rose to ,200 in 2008. In the last academic year, the total amount loaned to students increased about 18% from the previous year, to billion, according to the U.S. Department of Education.

Meanwhile, the unemployment rate for recent grads rose as well. It is now 10.6%, a record high.

The devaluation of a college degree is no secret on campus. An annual survey by the Higher Education Research Institute has long asked freshmen what they think their highest academic degree will be. In 1972, 38% of respondents said a bachelor's degree, but in 2008 only 22% answered the same. The number of freshmen planning to get a master's degree rose from 31% in 1972 to 42% in 2008. Says John Pryor, the institute's director: "Years ago, the bachelor's degree was the key to getting better jobs. Now you really need more than that. - source
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http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0 ... 06,00.html
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Post by Cherry Kelly » 12-14-2010 11:02 AM

kbot -- no idea if they do or not.

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Post by kbot » 12-14-2010 11:50 AM

Cherry Kelly wrote: kbot -- no idea if they do or not.


The reason why I ask is because tripling the costs seems excessive, and I was just wondering what the root cause(s) behind the rise might be. Is it pay, utilities???

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Post by Joolz » 12-14-2010 02:25 PM

kbot wrote: The reason why I ask is because tripling the costs seems excessive, and I was just wondering what the root cause(s) behind the rise might be. Is it pay, utilities???

From what I've read, it has to do with economic conditions, same as here. The government is who tripled their fees (I'm assuming maybe a big chunk of tuition was government subsidized, and they've taken that away?). It's all part of an 'austerity' program Parliament is voting in that's intended to help the government limp along while the economy recovers. It's my understanding that they're also cutting a lot of social services and other government programs.
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Post by Joolz » 12-14-2010 02:27 PM

Cherry Kelly wrote: Tuition and other college costs have increased almost across the entire USA - and keeps rising.

BUT to triple?? That is a bit overboard for sure. I could understand an increase, but not a triple.

Yeah. That's what I thought, too, Cherry. Incremental increases are one thing, but to suddenly just TRIPLE the tuition... well, it's no wonder the students took to the streets.
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Post by Cynthia Lynn » 12-14-2010 03:00 PM

I'm 61 and don't ever remember seeing the British people attack the Royals like that.

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Post by Raggedyann » 12-14-2010 04:44 PM

Cynthia Lynn wrote: I'm 61 and don't ever remember seeing the British people attack the Royals like that.

Probably because they have never before had the opportunity during such an angry moment in time. The Brits have suffered economic strife along with everybody else due to the greed of the rich and powerful. Their tuition fees have just been tripled and then along comes 2 filthy rich people whose high riding life style is supported by the taxpayers and they are being chauffeured in a Rolls Royce also paid for by the tax payers, AND they on their way to the ballet. LOL! Talk about waving a red flag in front of the bull!

I would say that the driver of the Limo, or whoever was responsible for taking the aristocrats through the protest area, will be looking for employment.

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