BUSTED by PREMIERE

[spaceprophet]

Just can't imagine what the problem was with my post - I though I was polite, asked a valid question and quite frankly expected some banal or lame inane response other than ZAP & DELETE.

It appears as though PremRad/Clear Channel aren't so hip to FREE SPEECH. Especially since the post was a legitimate consumer complaint that was carried out in a thoughtful and respectful manner. Hmmmm... Will they protect our Free Speech so industriously when they own all the media?

[Bonavoglia]

Please disregard the following suggestion if someone's brought it up in the past, but why don't we just trade shows via ICQ or a similar application? We could schedule a night or two a week -- say Tuesday for those on the East Coast and Thursday for those on the West. What could they possibly do to stop something like this? Like true pirates, we'd only change the channel name and move to a new location...

Suggestions?

[The_One]

alphacentaura, it appears as though your post on the C2C board has been removed.

Typical! Do these people not remind you of little kids on the playground with their hands cupped tightly to their ears going "La la la la la... I can't HEARRRRR you!!!!!"

[alphacentaura]

Well my Pirate friends....here I go.

I'm not dropping the ball on this one....here's my new post on the C2CAM board to replace my deleted post of this morning:

Dear George,

Earlier this morning, I submitted a post to you, as a listener and paid Customer of Coast to Coast AM, Streamlink and Premier Radio Networks/Clear Channel, seeking your assistance with explanation of seeming policy, which you are the host and spokesman of.

I ensured that my post was registered and visible on two seperate time occasons, which it was.

I now find, by the source of others and by my own verification that my post has been deleted, without response, explanation or email.

I am more than extremely upset, that my question/concern would be treated in this way.

For a venue, which seems to preport "freedom of thought", "diverse subject matter/opinion" ....subject matter from "somewhere out there", with no allowance for subject matter which is "somewhere in here" and obviously extremely pertinent to anything but the "paranormal"....internal policy and seeming agenda of a media organization, that someone "in there' wishes to suppress, with no allowance for the freedom of speech/expression or any accountibility to care for it's Customers ( PAYING...I might add)

Here is a copy of my re-posted question to you, as spokesman for both Coast to Coast AM via Clear Channel/Premier Radio Networks:

"George,

I would appreciate you explaining Clear Channels/Premiere Radio Networks position and seeming action regarding the sharing of vintage Coast to Coast programs with host Art Bell.

As I'm sure you are aware, classic programs were once available as on option for the Streamlink membership. In addition, Coast regularily advertises and encourages listeners to purchase the 'versarecorder' from the C Crane company, to enable both timeshift, to share with friends or to keep favorite shows for a personal library. Lastly, these programs were once offered for purchase to all listeners.

There are many listeners out there, who have obtained archives of vintage programs via the 'sanctioned' methods above.

Why is it, that when folks attempt to share these ' paid for' recorded vintage programs, that Premiere, attempts to quosh the activity via threats to the website or other intervention?

Seems to me, that Premiere has no revenue at stake here - they have been paid by their advertiser, C Crane Co, they have been paid by the listener, both via Streamlink membership when these programs were available or by direct payment from the sale of the tapes.

I would appreciate you explaining the rationale/reason for your networks seeming intervention with friends wanting to share 'paid for' material with friends.

Thanks.

George, I am appalled, that a simple, polite and questioning post, would be treated with the seeming censorship that is has.

Why are you/PremRad avoiding/refusing or afraid to answer my query in writing/ privatelly or on this board? Why is it necessary for you to delete paying members inquiries without explanation or comment.

George, if this post is deleted without response, I will hold you personally accountible via your staff or whoever are the censorship police in your organization and I will ensure that this story is told on every website I am capible of posting to clearly illustrate what the new "Coast" is all about.

My post is up there now: registerd at 12:41 PST in the "Chat with George" section of [url]http://www.coasttocoastam.com,[/url] titled " George, I'm Appalled!"

My pirate and free nature will not allow me to let this go.

Racehorse....where are you? Maybe you can explain this to us, or better yet, get George or PremRat to respond.

I'm not sure if this link will work, however for the record, here it is:
http://coast.premiereinteractive.com/ph ... php?t=2680


C'mon you guys...I know there are many PIRATES here on this board who also are members of Streamlink....where are you and your voices (I know who you are, however, I won't center you out).




__________________;)

[The_One]

I'm not sure if this link will work, however for the record, here it is:
http://coast.premiereinteractive.com/ph ... php?t=2680

Unfortunately, you have to be a paying member to read the board. Since I'm not, your link above just brings me to the sign-in page. Oh well...

[Paradisio]

Unfortunately, you have to be a paying member to read the board. Since I'm not, your link above just brings me to the sign-in page. Oh well...

Try This:

Author Message
night spirit
Jr. Member


Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 43
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 12:41 pm Post subject: George, I am Appalled!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear George,

Earlier this morning, I submitted a post to you, as a listener and paid Customer of Coast to Coast AM, Streamlink and Premier Radio Networks/Clear Channel, seeking your assistance with explanation of seeming policy, which you are the host and spokesman of.

I ensured that my post was registered and visible on two seperate time occasons, which it was.

I now find, by the source of others and by my own verification that my post has been deleted, without response, explanation or email.

I am more than extremely upset, that my question/concern would be treated in this way.

For a venue, which seems to preport "freedom of thought", "diverse subject matter/opinion" ....subject matter from "somewhere out there", with no allowance for subject matter which is "somewhere in here" and obviously extremely pertinent to anything but the "paranormal"....internal policy and seeming agenda of a media organization, that someone "in there' wishes to suppress, with no allowance for the freedom of speech/expression or any accountibility to care for it's Customers ( PAYING...I might add)

Here is a copy of my re-posted question to you, as spokesman for both Coast to Coast AM via Clear Channel/Premier Radio Networks:

"George,

I would appreciate you explaining Clear Channels/Premiere Radio Networks position and seeming action regarding the sharing of vintage Coast to Coast programs with host Art Bell.

As I'm sure you are aware, classic programs were once available as on option for the Streamlink membership. In addition, Coast regularily advertises and encourages listeners to purchase the 'versarecorder' from the C Crane company, to enable both timeshift, to share with friends or to keep favorite shows for a personal library. Lastly, these programs were once offered for purchase to all listeners.

There are many listeners out there, who have obtained archives of vintage programs via the 'sanctioned' methods above.

Why is it, that when folks attempt to share these ' paid for' recorded vintage programs, that Premiere, attempts to quosh the activity via threats to the website or other intervention?

Seems to me, that Premiere has no revenue at stake here - they have been paid by their advertiser, C Crane Co, they have been paid by the listener, both via Streamlink membership when these programs were available or by direct payment from the sale of the tapes.

I would appreciate you explaining the rationale/reason for your networks seeming intervention with friends wanting to share 'paid for' material with friends.

Thanks.

George, I am appalled, that a simple, polite and questioning post, would be treated with the seeming censorship that is has.

Why are you/PremRad avoiding/refusing or afraid to answer my query in writing/ privatelly or on this board? Why is it necessary for you to delete paying members inquiries without explanation or comment.

George, if this post is deleted without response, I will hold you personally accountible via your staff or whoever are the censorship police in your organization and I will ensure that this story is told on every website I am capible of posting to clearly illustrate what the new "Coast" is all about.





__________________







Back to top


RacerX
Jr. Member


Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 59

Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: George, I am Appalled!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

night spirit wrote:
Dear George,

Earlier this morning, I submitted a post to you, as a listener and paid Customer of Coast to Coast AM, Streamlink and Premier Radio Networks/Clear Channel, seeking your assistance with explanation of seeming policy, which you are the host and spokesman of.

I ensured that my post was registered and visible on two seperate time occasons, which it was.

I now find, by the source of others and by my own verification that my post has been deleted, without response, explanation or email.

I am more than extremely upset, that my question/concern would be treated in this way.

For a venue, which seems to preport "freedom of thought", "diverse subject matter/opinion" ....subject matter from "somewhere out there", with no allowance for subject matter which is "somewhere in here" and obviously extremely pertinent to anything but the "paranormal"....internal policy and seeming agenda of a media organization, that someone "in there' wishes to suppress, with no allowance for the freedom of speech/expression or any accountibility to care for it's Customers ( PAYING...I might add)

Here is a copy of my re-posted question to you, as spokesman for both Coast to Coast AM via Clear Channel/Premier Radio Networks:

"George,

I would appreciate you explaining Clear Channels/Premiere Radio Networks position and seeming action regarding the sharing of vintage Coast to Coast programs with host Art Bell.

As I'm sure you are aware, classic programs were once available as on option for the Streamlink membership. In addition, Coast regularily advertises and encourages listeners to purchase the 'versarecorder' from the C Crane company, to enable both timeshift, to share with friends or to keep favorite shows for a personal library. Lastly, these programs were once offered for purchase to all listeners.

There are many listeners out there, who have obtained archives of vintage programs via the 'sanctioned' methods above.

Why is it, that when folks attempt to share these ' paid for' recorded vintage programs, that Premiere, attempts to quosh the activity via threats to the website or other intervention?

Seems to me, that Premiere has no revenue at stake here - they have been paid by their advertiser, C Crane Co, they have been paid by the listener, both via Streamlink membership when these programs were available or by direct payment from the sale of the tapes.

I would appreciate you explaining the rationale/reason for your networks seeming intervention with friends wanting to share 'paid for' material with friends.

Thanks.

George, I am appalled, that a simple, polite and questioning post, would be treated with the seeming censorship that is has.

Why are you/PremRad avoiding/refusing or afraid to answer my query in writing/ privatelly or on this board? Why is it necessary for you to delete paying members inquiries without explanation or comment.

George, if this post is deleted without response, I will hold you personally accountible via your staff or whoever are the censorship police in your organization and I will ensure that this story is told on every website I am capible of posting to clearly illustrate what the new "Coast" is all about.





__________________








Whoa!
_________________
"Crush the Demoniac"---Harley Flanagan
Cro-Mags

Back to top


night spirit
Jr. Member


Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 43
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: George, I am Appalled!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RacerX wrote:
night spirit wrote:
Dear George,

Earlier this morning, I submitted a post to you, as a listener and paid Customer of Coast to Coast AM, Streamlink and Premier Radio Networks/Clear Channel, seeking your assistance with explanation of seeming policy, which you are the host and spokesman of.

I ensured that my post was registered and visible on two seperate time occasons, which it was.

I now find, by the source of others and by my own verification that my post has been deleted, without response, explanation or email.

I am more than extremely upset, that my question/concern would be treated in this way.

For a venue, which seems to preport "freedom of thought", "diverse subject matter/opinion" ....subject matter from "somewhere out there", with no allowance for subject matter which is "somewhere in here" and obviously extremely pertinent to anything but the "paranormal"....internal policy and seeming agenda of a media organization, that someone "in there' wishes to suppress, with no allowance for the freedom of speech/expression or any accountibility to care for it's Customers ( PAYING...I might add)

Here is a copy of my re-posted question to you, as spokesman for both Coast to Coast AM via Clear Channel/Premier Radio Networks:

"George,

I would appreciate you explaining Clear Channels/Premiere Radio Networks position and seeming action regarding the sharing of vintage Coast to Coast programs with host Art Bell.

As I'm sure you are aware, classic programs were once available as on option for the Streamlink membership. In addition, Coast regularily advertises and encourages listeners to purchase the 'versarecorder' from the C Crane company, to enable both timeshift, to share with friends or to keep favorite shows for a personal library. Lastly, these programs were once offered for purchase to all listeners.

There are many listeners out there, who have obtained archives of vintage programs via the 'sanctioned' methods above.

Why is it, that when folks attempt to share these ' paid for' recorded vintage programs, that Premiere, attempts to quosh the activity via threats to the website or other intervention?

Seems to me, that Premiere has no revenue at stake here - they have been paid by their advertiser, C Crane Co, they have been paid by the listener, both via Streamlink membership when these programs were available or by direct payment from the sale of the tapes.

I would appreciate you explaining the rationale/reason for your networks seeming intervention with friends wanting to share 'paid for' material with friends.

Thanks.

George, I am appalled, that a simple, polite and questioning post, would be treated with the seeming censorship that is has.

Why are you/PremRad avoiding/refusing or afraid to answer my query in writing/ privatelly or on this board? Why is it necessary for you to delete paying members inquiries without explanation or comment.

George, if this post is deleted without response, I will hold you personally accountible via your staff or whoever are the censorship police in your organization and I will ensure that this story is told on every website I am capible of posting to clearly illustrate what the new "Coast" is all about.





__________________








Whoa!


Very, very sad, but seemingly true folks.

Unless there is a response here, you all will very clearly see what this entire venue is all about.

I truly hope that this is not true, however, if it looks, feels, and smells like a "duck"...pun intended, it likely is.

George, do give your listenership some hope to the credibility of "your" program, "your" venue and "your" message board.

What are you folks afraid of??

In the free enterprise system, he who wins, will win...those who have the stuff to keep a listenership will...those who don't, won't.

Very simple, really....no need for subversive and censoring tactics.

Bottom line....the CUSTOMERS and LISTENERS will influence the outcome, regardless, via the monetary implications that their dedication and listenership brings...but, hey....you already know that BIG TIME!

Back to top

[TheBlackHand]

This is certainly no surprise to any of us who realize that C2C as we knew it died the day Art inked the deal with the Evvil Empire.

Of course we'll hear nothing from Noory concerning this matter. He lacks the fortitude, forthrightness, gray matter or control to comment. (Prove me right or wrong George. You've been called out.)

However, I half expected we'd have heard from his bestest fans by now.

Racehorse? Bupper? I'm sure one of you has a statement (excuse) prepared for this sort of situation.

Let's have it.

(Silence speaks volumes.)

[racehorse]

Racehorse....where are you? Maybe you can explain this to us, or better yet, get George or PremRat to respond.

alphacentauri, I largely agree with you and think your thoughful post deserves a response. I am not sure George is in a position that will enable him to freely respond. I hope that he is but feel it quite unlikely and I do not blame George for the actions of the Premiere radio networks. Having said that there comes a time when EVERYONE should take a stand even when there is risk to oneself for so doing.

Although I do not practice in the copyright area, I have practiced Law for almost twenty years and understand the arguments that Premiere is likely to assert. I also feel their decision on this is stupid and likely to alienate their most loyal fans and a strong argument can be made that they have acquiesced in the conduct they now wish to prohibit by encouraging the taping of the show for many years through commercials featuring the very hosts of the program.

No harm is being done to Premiere in any way through the actions of the small group of Pirates in this forum sharing recordings of vintage programs with each other. None are profitting in any way from this and indeed their actions show a true appreciation of the show . While all of us have our own preferences in programming; those here are the most loyal of fans to Art Bell, George Noory, and "Coast to Coast AM", and are often mentioned on air and acknowledged because this is at least known to the program hosts even if others at the network are blind to us.

Premiere has lost nothing from the actions of these fans but stands to lose the support and good will of the core of the "Coast to Coast AM" base through arrogant , shortsighted, and counterproductive adherance to a questionable legal theory which benefits no one .

[TheBlackHand]

"Having said that there comes a time when EVERYONE should take a stand even when there is risk to oneself for so doing."

Will you apply this rule to George, should he fail to "take a stand"? If so, I'll eat my hat. (My foot is losing it's flavor anyways.)

"While all of us have our own preferences in programming; those here are the most loyal of fans to Art Bell, George Noory, and "Coast to Coast AM", and are often mentioned on air and acknowledged because this is at least known to the program hosts even if others at the network are blind to us."

I have no doubt that Noory would love to shut down a forum where one of the most popular threads is an unflattering catalouge of gaffes called "Nooryisms". As we've seen in the past, he does not take well to critics. This forum is not Noory friendly. However, it might just as well be...if it weren't for episodes such as these.

"[George Noory] has lost nothing from the actions of these fans but stands to lose the support and good will of the core of the "Coast to Coast AM" base through arrogant , shortsighted, and counterproductive adherance to a questionable legal [authority] which benefits no one."

Racehorse, you are either a canary in a coal mine (closest to the exit) or a blind devotee who's going down with the ship. I'll be watching to see where you draw the line, and if you notice anyone crossing it.

Noory hurdled my line a long time ago.

[Paradisio]

...many excellent words snipped,,,
Premiere has lost nothing from the actions of these fans but stands to lose the support and good will of the core of the "Coast to Coast AM" base through arrogant , shortsighted, and counterproductive adherance to a questionable legal theory which benefits no one .

Bravo racehorse!

You are now my very favorite lawyer

[Paradisio]

In reply to AC's thread on C2C's StreamStink

Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 7:49 pm
Post subject: Property Rights

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

George,

I have to put in my 2 cents here.

I'm sure you are trying to do your best under the watchful eye of your corporate masters. However, I hope you will respond to this thread with more than a sentence or two even if you may feel some discomfort doing so.

If Art Bell himself tells me that he wants me to stop sharing his old shows with my friends, or if he starts selling them for HIS profit, I will not trade them any more. There are MANY people that did not hear all the TRULY great shows that he did, and those unfortunate people do not deserve to miss them just because of corporate greed, bad timing and filthy malice. I can still buy Pink Floyd's Dark Side of The Moon, but Art's interview with Terrance McKenna is unavailable at any price.

I am paying my 6 bucks a month here, do not ignore me and the others in this thread because we disagree with the powers that be.

Best regards,

Paradisio

[revisedcode]

hehe nice replies..

Its really ok, just dont want to screw it up for every one.

We do have private messages, that is tons different then OPEN POSTING of copyrighted material.

I'd love to have full access to the BELL 100 myself, but i want legal copies, mebbe we get lucky some day and PREM RAD will start selling the Classic shows!

Any way I'd rather remain a FANTASTIC FORUM then a shipwreck.


Revisedcode

[user-57]

No harm is being done to Premiere in any way through the actions of the small group of Pirates in this forum sharing recordings of vintage programs with each other.

Of course not. That'd be like my grandma being sued for trading old recipes with her crony friends.

This **** is just waaaayy outta hand. I pretty much stopped listening to the show months ago (hence my absence from the ship as of late), and missed Art's brief return.

It's no longer about entertainment or education. It's about who can make the quickest buck, and what schlubb is gonna take the fall (knock-knock, George)... it makes me sick & cynical and not very optimistic about the future of late-night A.M. radio.

[Gotrox]

Those of you that are unfortunate streamlink members, might read my reply to that thread as "PROPHECY-WATCH", if it hasn't been deleted-----and really, there is no need to go ballistic on poor george. Remember, the guy is an employee, and I doubt he has any say on corporate matters.

[Shirleypal]

Those of you that are unfortunate streamlink members, might read my reply to that thread as "PROPHECY-WATCH", if it hasn't been deleted-----and really, there is no need to go ballistic on poor george. Remember, the guy is an employee, and I doubt he has any say on corporate matters.

I can bet George didn't want Art Bell's top 100 shows available for sale on his site or the two best of Art on the streaming for us to listen to every month, maybe he doesn't make the decisions but as the new guy on the block had discussions with Prem Rat about it. He probably isn't very happy about Art filling in either and given a choice would nix that.






Waiting for a ride with Art.