Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'

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Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'

Post by Doka » 03-29-2018 12:33 PM

Well now, that's good news. :mrgreen: Mr Pope is changing "Church Doctrine" faster than a speeding bullet. Way back in the day, I took "Catacism" lessons, it was said "that if ANY part of the "Doctrine" was changed, it would no longer be the "True Faith" ? In that case, will the Pope just disappear ? He may wish he could, if he just could , remember "Why"?






Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'

In another interview with his longtime atheist friend, Eugenio Scalfari, Pope Francis claims that Hell does not exist and that condemned souls just "disappear." This is a denial of the 2,000-year-old teaching of the Catholic Church about the reality of Hell and the eternal existence of the soul.

The interview between Scalfari and the Pope was published March 28, 2018 in La Repubblica. The relevant section on Hell was translated by the highly respected web log, Rorate Caeli.

The interview is headlined, "The Pope: It is an honor to be called revolutionary." (Il Papa: “È un onore essere chiamato rivoluzionario.")

Scalfari says to the Pope, "Your Holiness, in our previous meeting you told me that our species will disappear in a certain moment and that God, still out of his creative force, will create new species. You have never spoken to me about the souls who died in sin and will go to hell to suffer it for eternity. You have however spoken to me of good souls, admitted to the contemplation of God. But what about bad souls? Where are they punished?"

Pope Francis says, "They are not punished, those who repent obtain the forgiveness of God and enter the rank of souls who contemplate him, but those who do not repent and cannot therefore be forgiven disappear. There is no hell, there is the disappearance of sinful souls."


https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w- ... re-no-hell
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Re: Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'

Post by Riddick » 03-29-2018 03:05 PM

If there is no Hell, does that mean The Devil is unemployed AND homeless?
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Re: Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'

Post by kbot » 03-29-2018 04:40 PM

Yeah, a lot of Catholics are scratching their heads with this Pope.

Interestingly, during the Fatima apparitions in the early 1900s, the Blessed Mother showed the three visionaries a look at Hell. I'd tend to believe her over this pope..........

Also, it's bene said that a way for Satan to gain power over people is to get humanity to believe that he doesn't exist. Seems with each passing decade from the start of the 20th century, that this goal is advancing. Schools can't teach anything about religion, and Hollywood has done its best to trivialize his existence. Of course the clergy haven't been paragons of virtue either......
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Re: Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'

Post by Doka » 03-29-2018 07:16 PM

.
The "Sheeple" are so easily led down the path to their own destruction, without a thought. We are "spiritual beings", with or without belief, what we can't survive without ,is a viable conscience, of knowing right from wrong, the idea of doing no harm, especially to ourselves 1st or we are just frauds in human bodies.....

Lot's of evil floating around these days...........Keep safe
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Pope Tells Priests They ‘Can’ Tell Adulterers ‘Go and Sin No More’ But Not With 'Legalistic Tone'

Post by Riddick » 03-30-2018 01:22 AM

Pope Francis delivered a Holy Thursday homily for a congregation of priests attending Mass at St. Peter’s Basilica in Rome in which he told them that they “can” tell adulterers to “go and sin no more,” but should not do it “with the legalistic tone of truth as definition.”

Instead, he told them, they should do it with the “tone of truth as fidelity.”

“I suggest that you meditate on three areas of priestly closeness where the words, ‘Do everything Jesus tells you,’ need to be heard--in a thousand different ways but with the same motherly tone--in the hearts of all those with whom we speak,” he said.

FULL STORY

Yeah, let's not get all legal about it. Just 'cause God thought adultery warranted a place on the list of Thou Shalt Nots, doesn't mean priests need be authoritative.

Don't treat them as commands. In fact for a motherly tone let's start calling them The Ten Suggestions.
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Pat Buchanan: Is Pope Francis A Heretic?

Post by Riddick » 03-30-2018 02:43 PM

"Pope Declares No Hell?" What did Christ die on the cross to save us from?

If Francis made such a statement, it would be rank heresy.

Had the pope been speaking ex cathedra, as the vicar of Christ on earth, he would be contradicting 2,000 years of Catholic doctrine, rooted in the teachings of Christ himself. He would be calling into question papal infallibility, as defined in 1870 by the Vatican Council of Pius IX.

Questions would arise as to whether Francis is a true pope.

The Vatican swiftly issued a statement saying the pope had had a private conversation, not a formal interview, with his friend Scalfari.

The Vatican added: "The textual words pronounced by the pope are not quoted. No quotation of the aforementioned article must therefore be considered as a faithful transcription of the words of the Holy Father."

Sorry, but this will not do. This does not answer the questions the pope raised in his chat. Does hell exist? Are souls that die in mortal sin damned to hell for all eternity? Does the pope accept this belief? Is this still the infallible teaching of the Roman Catholic Church?

However one may applaud Francis' stance on social justice, on matters of faith and morals he has called defined doctrine into question and created confusion throughout the Church he heads.

In his letter Amoris Laetitia, "The Joy of Love," the pope seemed to give approval to the receiving of Holy Communion by divorced and remarried Catholics, whose previous marriages had not been annulled, and whom the Church holds to be living in adultery.

Relying on the pope's letter, German bishops have begun to authorize the distribution of Communion to divorced and remarried couples.

Cardinal Gerhard Muller, former prefect of the Vatican office for the Doctrine of the Faith, the position once held by Pope Benedict XVI, says this contradicts Catholic doctrine as enunciated by Pope John Paul II.

Said Cardinal Muller, "No power in heaven or on earth, neither an angel nor the pope, not a council, nor a law of the bishops has the faculty to change it."

Four cardinals, including Raymond Burke of the United States, in a formal letter, asked the pope to clarify Amoris Laetitia. The pope did not, nor has he addressed the cardinals' concerns.

Indeed, when asked early in his papacy about the immorality of homosexuality, the pope parried the question, "Who am I to judge?"

But if not thee, who? Is not the judging of right and wrong part of the job description?

There is a division inside Catholicism that is widening, between a Third World and traditional church that are growing, and a mainstream Church in Europe and here that is taking on aspects of the Anglican Church of the 20th century.

And how did that turn out, Your Holiness?

Happy Easter!

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Re: Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'

Post by Doka » 03-31-2018 10:30 AM

My only question is......Why do we give these mere humans such power over us? Nothing more better,nor worse than the rest of us? We seem to have the need to build, and elevate those that have the same feet of clay as the rest of us and then get really miffed when they disappoint. Just like we blame others when we disappoint our selves.

You either know right from wrong or you don't, when you try and live by the "10 Suggestions" and I have to say it is not easy, but well worth the effort . Perfection does not live on this un-holy planet.
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Re: Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'

Post by kbot » 04-02-2018 11:15 AM

And then there is, as Paul Harvey used to say, "the rest of the story......"

Snippet:

Scalfari, a self-proclaimed atheist, is the founder and former editor of Italian leftist newspaper La Repubblica. In an article published on the site March 29, Scalfari claims that Pope Francis told him, “hell doesn’t exist, the disappearance of the souls of sinners exists.”

Scalfari’s fifth meeting with Pope Francis, it is not the first time he has misrepresented the Pope’s words following a private audience

In November 2013, following intense controversy over quotes the journalist had attributed to Francis, Scalfari admitted that at least some of the words he had published a month prior “were not shared by the Pope himself.”

In a meeting with the journalists of the Foreign Press Association of Rome in 2013, Scalfari maintained that all his interviews have been conducted without a recording device, nor taking notes while the person is speaking.

“I try to understand the person I am interviewing, and after that I write his answers with my own words,” Scalfari explained. He conceded that it is therefore possible that “some of the Pope’s words I reported, were not shared by Pope Francis.” https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did- ... snt-exist/

The Church (including the pope) continues to maintain the more than 5,000-year Judeo-Christian belief in Hell. The alleged journalist is 93 years old, and makes-up "fact" to support his personal view. Sorry........ he's done this before. He has an axe to grind, simple as that.
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Re: Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'

Post by Doka » 04-02-2018 07:21 PM

The Atheist did it! Well, that's solved! :D


What about all the the "Other" things this Pope has done, and will continue to do contrary to the "Faith"? Will that be all explained away also............?
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Re: Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'

Post by kbot » 04-03-2018 11:39 AM

Doka wrote: 04-02-2018 07:21 PM The Atheist did it! Well, that's solved! :D


What about all the the "Other" things this Pope has done, and will continue to do contrary to the "Faith"? Will that be all explained away also............?
I seriously doubt that Doka. This pope has said some things that make many Catholic do a collective head slap and go "Huh?????". But this case just goes to show how quickly things can spiral out of reality when a person such as this, who has a record of doing exactly this sort of thing, is given prominence. It's not an issue, solely, of his being an atheist, although he certainly has a an agenda. It is also an issue of what constitutes a journalist. This guy heard something, didn't like what was said, and changed the language entirely and ran the story with incorrect information.

Most believers in (fill-in-the-blank) religion, believe in an alternate to (call it what you will:) Heaven, Paradise, Valhalla, the Summerlands, Vaikuntha (or any other name), so whether we chose to call it "Hell, the Underworld, Naraka or whatever name, and this is based on millennia's worth of religious experience, much of it developed independently of other groups. So, the fact that these are shared experiences, although developed independently, is in itself interesting.

It will be interesting, also, to see the expression on this guy's face when, after passing away, he comes-to, realizes his situation and utters "Oh crap........" :mrgreen:
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Re: Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'

Post by Doka » 04-03-2018 03:26 PM

I seriously doubt that Doka. This pope has said some things that make many Catholic do a collective head slap and go "Huh?????". But this case just goes to show how quickly things can spiral out of reality when a person such as this, who has a record of doing exactly this sort of thing, is given prominence. It's not an issue, solely, of his being an atheist, although he certainly has a an agenda. It is also an issue of what constitutes a journalist. This guy heard something, didn't like what was said, and changed the language entirely and ran the story with incorrect information.

Most believers in (fill-in-the-blank) religion, believe in an alternate to (call it what you will:) Heaven, Paradise, Valhalla, the Summerlands, Vaikuntha (or any other name), so whether we chose to call it "Hell, the Underworld, Naraka or whatever name, and this is based on millennia's worth of religious experience, much of it developed independently of other groups. So, the fact that these are shared experiences, although developed independently, is in itself interesting. 

It will be interesting, also, to see the expression on this guy's face when, after passing away, he comes-to, realizes his situation and utters "Oh crap........" 
Yes, since time began , humans have been looking for the way to "Heaven" doing all sorts of weird stuff, and kissing the feet of many "frogs" to get them into the afterlife in one piece. But unless you too, can find someone else to literally die for you in your place, YOU are going to be The One reviewed on your own life. No ifs, ands or buts. No lawyers, no pages of religious promises, just little ole' you and how YOU lived the life given to you , a life time of struggle to do the "Right Thing", or where you spending it off in the "weeds" paying homage to something that offered you a bogus "Free Pass". Or the ones filling their selves with hate, greed, fear, destroying them selves , and tainting any one that jumps on their "Band Wagon" with them. Exercising their "Freewill" crap. Karma can be as blissful or as horrible as our Own actions will reflect.

"Reality" on this "Hell Planet" is highly prejudiced and emotional. We have a tendency to tie it to what we want to believe, not what IS. If we saw with clarity, true "Reality" we would most likely really go running off into the weeds, screaming and yelling! Just a big distraction at any rate, from our purpose of "why" we are really here in the moment. :D





So.....you are saying, that it is your belief that the atheist interviewer didn't hear right, when the Pope said "There is no hell",.....4 words that got all scrambled......right? Probably just meant "Hell no, there is"? :confused: I doubt very much, that the Pope and the atheist interviewer where alone........Very Well, what ever.....
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Re: Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'

Post by Doka » 04-03-2018 04:05 PM

It will be interesting, also, to see the expression on this guy's face when, after passing away, he comes-to, realizes his situation and utters "Oh crap........" 

That statement , in my opinion, is the "Fatal Flaw" of all religions. My way or else. Sooo ,most discriminate one way or another, even to the point of skin color, and who you sleep with. That's not heaven, that's just another screwed up earth.

A Life well lived, causing as little harm as can be expected on this hellish planet, is just flushed down the toilet, because they weren't in the right club. Hopefully the beings of light are just not that mean, petty or stupid and have no coffers to fill........... :realmad:
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Re: Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'

Post by kbot » 04-05-2018 11:51 AM

Doka wrote: 04-02-2018 07:21 PM The Atheist did it! Well, that's solved! :D


What about all the the "Other" things this Pope has done, and will continue to do contrary to the "Faith"? Will that be all explained away also............?
I agree with your Doka, but the thread was about a comment that the pope allegedly made, but clearly didn't. It was manufactured by the writer to push his own agenda. He's known for thus type of stuff and, unfortunately, the media (typically, lately) just ran with the story rather than fact-checking. Par fro the course.....
There you go man, keep as cool as you can. Face piles and piles of trials with smiles. It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave. And keep on thinking free. (Moody Blues)

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Re: Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'

Post by kbot » 04-05-2018 11:58 AM

Doka wrote: 04-03-2018 03:26 PM
Yes, since time began , humans have been looking for the way to "Heaven" doing all sorts of weird stuff, and kissing the feet of many "frogs" to get them into the afterlife in one piece. But unless you too, can find someone else to literally die for you in your place, YOU are going to be The One reviewed on your own life. No ifs, ands or buts. No lawyers, no pages of religious promises, just little ole' you and how YOU lived the life given to you , a life time of struggle to do the "Right Thing", or where you spending it off in the "weeds" paying homage to something that offered you a bogus "Free Pass". Or the ones filling their selves with hate, greed, fear, destroying them selves , and tainting any one that jumps on their "Band Wagon" with them. Exercising their "Freewill" crap. Karma can be as blissful or as horrible as our Own actions will reflect.

"Reality" on this "Hell Planet" is highly prejudiced and emotional. We have a tendency to tie it to what we want to believe, not what IS. If we saw with clarity, true "Reality" we would most likely really go running off into the weeds, screaming and yelling! Just a big distraction at any rate, from our purpose of "why" we are really here in the moment. :D

So.....you are saying, that it is your belief that the atheist interviewer didn't hear right, when the Pope said "There is no hell",.....4 words that got all scrambled......right? Probably just meant "Hell no, there is"? :confused: I doubt very much, that the Pope and the atheist interviewer where alone........Very Well, what ever.....
Since the writer didn't (and apparently never does) take notes from his interviews, it's a matter of the writer holding to form and fabricating - which he has a history of doing. The pope and others who were present deny that the pope said what this writer is accusing him.

And, as I have said before Doka, I have no illusions about my faults - I am well aware of them and I do not subscribe to the "I accept Jesus Christ as my savior, and therefore I am saved, and don't have to worry about anything ever again..." That's not my belief. While I personally hold what can be viewed as conservative Catholic views, I do not believe that my salvation will be immediate and uncomplicated - in fact I believe it will be difficult and peppered with many mistakes over the course of my lifetime. I know I can be a much better person and hold no illusions about what's to come.
There you go man, keep as cool as you can. Face piles and piles of trials with smiles. It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave. And keep on thinking free. (Moody Blues)

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Re: Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'

Post by Doka » 04-06-2018 03:48 PM

And, as I have said before Doka, I have no illusions about my faults - I am well aware of them and I do not subscribe to the "I accept Jesus Christ as my savior, and therefore I am saved, and don't have to worry about anything ever again..." That's not my belief. While I personally hold what can be viewed as conservative Catholic views, I do not believe that my salvation will be immediate and uncomplicated - in fact I believe it will be difficult and peppered with many mistakes over the course of my lifetime. I know I can be a much better person and hold no illusions about what's to come.

Kbot,Kbot, Kbot...........!

We have had this conversation before. I have no doubt that you are a good man. I and the rest of us certainly will identify with , and agree with your shared struggles, they are ours too.

You try to always live your lfe in the gray area and for the most part that can work, but eventually most of us will find that we must take "stand" To have the courage of or own convictions on something, someone, etc. If for nothing else, than to to define our own "limitations", and our own self respect. Call ,it good, bad or indifferent, what ever you want.

Here is how you are appearing to me over the years. You make a Critique of something (people, places ,things) . Then you switch sides and make excuses and defend the behavior of the whatever of what you just critiqued , then you take it as a personal attack, if you feel cornered. Just what do you believe in? Certainly not on what you originally wrote, you shred that theory all by yourself, the fight is with-in you. As far as I can see you have No Convictions,that you care to keep, you think it might offend someone? I call it "fence sitting" and it is really really uncomfortable position to be in.
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