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Shazam
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Google+

Post by Shazam » 08-20-2011 08:38 PM

I have invites if anyone wants one just need an e-mail address

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Kaztronic
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Post by Kaztronic » 08-20-2011 09:08 PM

Google is a U.S. spy program.
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Shazam
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Post by Shazam » 08-20-2011 09:16 PM

The Internet itself is a spy program lol...what are they going to find out about me? lol that I like Football,Comic books and occasionally internet porn HAHA unless u live and work off the grid IMO privacy is a fallacy...

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Re: Google+

Post by Bobbi Snow » 08-21-2011 01:04 AM

Shazam wrote: I have invites if anyone wants one just need an e-mail address


I'm kind of curious about it, Shazam. You can send one to me via p.m.

And thanks...
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Dale O Sea
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Post by Dale O Sea » 08-21-2011 10:00 AM

Kaztronic wrote: Google is a U.S. spy program.
Shazam wrote: The Internet itself is a spy program lol...what are they going to find out about me? lol that I like Football,Comic books and occasionally internet porn HAHA unless u live and work off the grid IMO privacy is a fallacy...

I'm sure you are both at least somewhat right. Privacy online is an illusion. No real options - get used to that or get off line. Even then there are no guarantees of privacy. Ask the brits or others that are covered by cameras 24-7. Traffic and red-light cams here in the States aren't there for driving safety alone.. Off the grid, hiding at a residence that isn't in your name, no phone, no car, no job, no ssn, no connection to anything with your name on it..then you might have some privacy..but not for long as only ones with something to hide would go to those extremes to protect their anonymity would be the thinking of the authorities when they discovered this about you.

I've used gmail since it's inception and have been on Plus since it started about a month ago.. I don't trust them far, but much more than facebook. Google is an ad company so I expect them to harvest my surfing habits. That's what they do. They tell you as much and it's how they make their money. It's also how they finance all the free services that folks like: search, mail, online storage, smartphone operating systems, etc...

I'm not altogether on board with how this info is used nor do I believe the data is, even with google's assurance that it is ID sterilized, not traceable back to you. It is. It's been proven many times that the anonymized data that google has can be linked to a person in very few steps by anyone with a brain.

The Internet is a public forum and if you use it, you and the sites you visit are in plain view of your ISP, not to mention our govt police force, Homeland Security. If someone targets you, google, facebook user or not, they can get tons of info from you and your PC with some very easy hacks.

I don't think most people go online for privacy anyway..as I said above, it is a public medium for people to communicate and connect. People don't want to connect to unknown entities and cannot in any meaningful way.

If it ever comes down to McCarthyistic witch hunts as we saw last century, there is plenty of ammo online for this and the ones pulling that would have access to it all thanks to our fears and Homeland Security Act, no matter what you call yourself. You can run but you cannot hide from them. There's nothing in the Constitution that guarantees privacy..expect those in power to exploit that when the need arises, much like they are now, in fact.
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Post by Kaztronic » 08-21-2011 02:25 PM

~snip~

Recently, the Washington Post noted as part of a two-year investigation into America's intelligence community that Google supplies special mapping and search products to the U.S. military and intelligence community, with some Google employees enjoying top secret clearance to work with the government. That news has consumer advocates and politicians asking exactly what information Google has collected -- and why.

FoxNews.com

__________________________________________________

Of course you are all correct about the limits of privacy that we can realistically expect to have - especially when it comes to commercial matters.

We do however have a legal expectation of privacy when it comes to our government, which needs to be vociferously defended. It is not in our best interest to simply say, "screw it, they're going to find out what I'm doing anyway". Or, "screw it, nothing I'm doing is objectionable, so I have nothing to worry about."

Moving forward in that manner, eventually our legally protected expectation of privacy against government intrusion will erode to the point where you cannot read about government projects such as "Rex 84" for example.

Rex 84 (a)

Rex 84 (b)

Consider this about Google:

A Federal judge has issued orders in response to FOIA requests from privacy groups that no information can be released, or investigated to determine the extent of the relationship between Google and the NSA.

WND.com

Of course, Google and the NSA are well known to have a relationship that insiders claim is solely designed to protect the Google network from being hacked. If that is the case, why the government move to seal off such information from the public?

PCWorld.com

The last time we heard about the NSA working with a public company, it was AT&T - where they were illegally wiretapping phone calls.

I often wonder why we were so alarmed, so angry, so concerned about the NSA illegally wire-tapping our phone conversations - while we don't give a damn if they read our emails..........

Google is under investigation for spying in numerous countries, and in South Korea for example has been found guilty of doing so. This spying extended well beyond it's search engine. It included accessing people's wifi networks, text messages, etc...... Google initially claimed in the U.S. and nations around the world that it was simply taking pictures for it's street view program, but was later exposed (and admitted to) also accessing private wifi networks of companies, and individuals.

And then, just on a basic level, what the hell is going on when we simply allow companies to take pictures of our HOMES to post on the internet without our permission??? I just could never have imagined prior to 9/11 that we would reach the point of not even raising an eyebrow at this kind of stuff.

The Smoking Gun

Google now admits, that it no longer matters if you're signed in, or OUT of it's products. It will still track you and the information you gather.

TechRadar.com

Finally, the connections between Google and the U.S. Government are alarming. Former top executives of Google now hold important positions within the Obama Administration - and are under investigation for continuing to work on behalf of Google in directing policy.

TheHill.com

Google and the CIA are now partners in a company called "Recorded Future", which seeks to predict and manipulate what information people access on the internet.

Wired.com

The internet represents the best source the public has ever had for gathering information. It is only natural that the U.S. Government would work VERY hard to control that information, manipulate that information, and if necessary control that information in the future. Google, is quickly becoming a monopoly - and it's power and reach are quickly expanding in to nearly every facet of our technological lives. Google of course is one of the main companies pushing for "cloud" based data storage. Soon enough, we're taking the step of not relying upon hard drives on our computers, but instead storing our personal data on the hard drives of Google. It is now by far the largest search engine out there, killing the competition. It is also taking over email quite obviously. How long before our televisions are controlled by Google?

Oh......

Wikipedia

And don't forget - phones. We all know the U.S. government loves to listen in on our phone calls. Just 3 years ago, we fought them on this. Don't forget who makes the Android phones - which are now outselling Iphones.

When you consider it in a big picture view, it makes perfect sense, and we're going along with it.

Take a moment and consider the risks of one company having this level of control of your exposure to information. It is VERY easy for Google, and whomever they might represent to influence public opinion, and create situations simply by manipulating the information we are exposed to.

The government wouldn't have to work with multiple network broadcasters (who would now be influenced right along with the public as they all rely upon Google), wouldn't need to deal with multiple internet service providers to obtain info, wouldn't need to deal with multiple phone companies, etc.......

Would the government be able to gather all of this information anyway? Yes, probably. It does not mean however that we should make it easy for them and simply allow our privacy and ability to easily access the information we want, and perhaps need to simply fade to grey.

At any other time in our history, any one company that held this much power, control, and influence would be regarded VERY suspiciously.

Wikipedia
Last edited by Kaztronic on 08-21-2011 02:34 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Image "You'll get used to my babbling, all the others have." - Anna Madrigal from "Tales Of The City" by Armistead Maupin

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Post by megman » 08-21-2011 02:27 PM

Still an Original Pirate since Aug 2000
Wanna ride the Zamboni?

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Post by SquidInk » 08-21-2011 03:04 PM

Kaztronic wrote: ~snip~

Recently, the Washington Post noted as part of a two-year investigation into America's intelligence community that Google supplies special mapping and search products to the U.S. military and intelligence community, with some Google employees enjoying top secret clearance to work with the government. That news has consumer advocates and politicians asking exactly what information Google has collected -- and why.

FoxNews.com

__________________________________________________

Of course you are all correct about the limits of privacy that we can realistically expect to have - especially when it comes to commercial matters.

We do however have a legal expectation of privacy when it comes to our government, which needs to be vociferously defended. It is not in our best interest to simply say, "screw it, they're going to find out what I'm doing anyway". Or, "screw it, nothing I'm doing is objectionable, so I have nothing to worry about."

Moving forward in that manner, eventually our legally protected expectation of privacy against government intrusion will erode to the point where you cannot read about government projects such as "Rex 84" for example.

Rex 84 (a)

Rex 84 (b)

Consider this about Google:

A Federal judge has issued orders in response to FOIA requests from privacy groups that no information can be released, or investigated to determine the extent of the relationship between Google and the NSA.

WND.com

Of course, Google and the NSA are well known to have a relationship that insiders claim is solely designed to protect the Google network from being hacked. If that is the case, why the government move to seal off such information from the public?

PCWorld.com

The last time we heard about the NSA working with a public company, it was AT&T - where they were illegally wiretapping phone calls.

I often wonder why we were so alarmed, so angry, so concerned about the NSA illegally wire-tapping our phone conversations - while we don't give a damn if they read our emails..........

Google is under investigation for spying in numerous countries, and in South Korea for example has been found guilty of doing so. This spying extended well beyond it's search engine. It included accessing people's wifi networks, text messages, etc...... Google initially claimed in the U.S. and nations around the world that it was simply taking pictures for it's street view program, but was later exposed (and admitted to) also accessing private wifi networks of companies, and individuals.

And then, just on a basic level, what the hell is going on when we simply allow companies to take pictures of our HOMES to post on the internet without our permission??? I just could never have imagined prior to 9/11 that we would reach the point of not even raising an eyebrow at this kind of stuff.

The Smoking Gun

Google now admits, that it no longer matters if you're signed in, or OUT of it's products. It will still track you and the information you gather.

TechRadar.com

Finally, the connections between Google and the U.S. Government are alarming. Former top executives of Google now hold important positions within the Obama Administration - and are under investigation for continuing to work on behalf of Google in directing policy.

TheHill.com

Google and the CIA are now partners in a company called "Recorded Future", which seeks to predict and manipulate what information people access on the internet.

Wired.com

The internet represents the best source the public has ever had for gathering information. It is only natural that the U.S. Government would work VERY hard to control that information, manipulate that information, and if necessary control that information in the future. Google, is quickly becoming a monopoly - and it's power and reach are quickly expanding in to nearly every facet of our technological lives. Google of course is one of the main companies pushing for "cloud" based data storage. Soon enough, we're taking the step of not relying upon hard drives on our computers, but instead storing our personal data on the hard drives of Google. It is now by far the largest search engine out there, killing the competition. It is also taking over email quite obviously. How long before our televisions are controlled by Google?

Oh......

Wikipedia

And don't forget - phones. We all know the U.S. government loves to listen in on our phone calls. Just 3 years ago, we fought them on this. Don't forget who makes the Android phones - which are now outselling Iphones.

When you consider it in a big picture view, it makes perfect sense, and we're going along with it.

Take a moment and consider the risks of one company having this level of control of your exposure to information. It is VERY easy for Google, and whomever they might represent to influence public opinion, and create situations simply by manipulating the information we are exposed to.

The government wouldn't have to work with multiple network broadcasters (who would now be influenced right along with the public as they all rely upon Google), wouldn't need to deal with multiple internet service providers to obtain info, wouldn't need to deal with multiple phone companies, etc.......

Would the government be able to gather all of this information anyway? Yes, probably. It does not mean however that we should make it easy for them and simply allow our privacy and ability to easily access the information we want, and perhaps need to simply fade to grey.

At any other time in our history, any one company that held this much power, control, and influence would be regarded VERY suspiciously.

Wikipedia


Why all the high level interest in 'recording' everything?

Anyone have any thoughts?

It doesn't seem like a traditional pursuit, it seems like a fairly new idea...
For if it profit, none dare call it Treason.

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Post by Bobbi Snow » 08-21-2011 04:52 PM

Well, if I may venture a thought about this...

We all know that there aren't enough people OR computers to read all the data we've collected from suspected Taliban/Al Qaeda phone taps. We've fired over 300 translators because they were (or were suspected of being) LGBT. So the data mining is probably mostly a moot point unless certain "key words" or "key phrases" are picked up by smart computers, programmed to look for them, specifically.

However, I am thinking that spying on the commoners isn't happening as much as they want us to think it is... It's a "control factor" designed to scare us into believing that when we speak disrespectfully against anyone elected to Office - whether it's truth or not - SOMEONE IN POWER might be listening! What better way to prevent activists from forming into groups which do not approve of the tactics of the Military Industrial Complex, or one of the political parties, can they have, than pure FEAR. Fear of our homes being entered without warrants by DHS... Fear of local Law Enforcement breaking down our door in the middle of the night... Fear of being accused of something we haven't done... Fear that something we are doing, such as growing a couple of pot plants, having porn on a computer in the house, having proof that we fudged on a tax return in the past 7 years; fear that for a bogus reason, our homes might be trashed, our electronics might be seized and downloaded into some FBI or DHS or local Law Enforcement database for further review. It's the FEAR they're looking to establish, to control more of us.

FEAR is a mighty sword. Right now it's probably stronger in most normal peoples' minds than Truth, because "truth" takes time and lots of money to prove, when we're being wrongly accused of something, or when we're not guilty of whatever they've entered our home for, but they instead find something else that can potentially ruin our lives if it's made public. Fear that our children might be taken away and turned over to DCS while we're trying to prove our innocence.

I also think that some people on the Hill might use information data mined in the future - perhaps YEARS into the future - to thwart the aspirations of people who are now in their mid-to-late teens who might hope, one day, to run for public Office. I know it's unconscionable to think that our Lawmakers might actually do this to us... but it's a distinct possibility. One we must keep in mind when we're writing notes on Facebook or any other social network, writing personal e-mails to our friends and families, and having everyday conversations on our telephones.

Weren't we WARNED in the novel 1984 that life could (and probably would) come to this?

I think the best ways to handle potential problems which might arise in our future, are: Use common sense and discipline in what we write, post, and say on our phones or in public places. We can disagree with many things, in posts, writing, and verbally - it's how we do it that will make all the difference.

I try not to make senseless comments that might be construed as threats... I am critical without sounding radical.

And now I think I'll go dunk a tea bagger into a cup of boiling hot water while I calm down... Whups! Did I put too many letters in my description of Lipton?


:D :eek: :rolleyes:
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Post by Dude111 » 08-21-2011 09:51 PM

Kaztronic wrote: Google is a U.S. spy program.
Indeed they are!! (As bad as facebook)

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Post by Dale O Sea » 08-22-2011 09:51 AM

SquidInk wrote: Why all the high level interest in 'recording' everything?

Anyone have any thoughts?

It doesn't seem like a traditional pursuit, it seems like a fairly new idea...

Recording, deleting..depends on your statu$. But sounds like simple evidence gathering to me. As untraditional as DWI roadblocks, warrantless wiretaps, spycams on the roadways, etc...but becoming standard routine.

I look at the 'net as public, open, exposed. I post like I would in the OP-Ed letters section of a global newspaper. To see it any other way would be fooling myself. Yes, there are ways to hide your tracks, somewhat. But if someone wants you bad enough they'll find a way. The worst they would find me doing is downloading TV shows for the wife..which has all but stopped since we started using NetFlix, btw..imagine that.

Problem is the Internet wasn't made to be private. It was "originally designed for openness and flexibility, not for security." The military designed and added security when they started using it. Do you think the military may have built in a few back doors to this?

As for FreeNet, this solution only seems practical if you are really worried that you will be caught doing something you don't want authorities seeing you do as it completely hobbles you and degrades your time online to a tedious, slow and cumbersome experience - like dialup with handcuffs. Hardly seems worthwhile to me unless I'm planning terrorist activities, trading kiddie porn or I live in China or other heavily filtered and monitored country's network.

This lack of privacy/security could all be solved by upgrading, or better yet, redesigning the webs. Now would be a great time too, since we are all but out of IP addresses. But the opposite is happening with the growing popularity of services like openid, facebook connect and signing in to other sites using google, twitter, etc.

And just because I have adapted myself to this open net doesn't mean I don't still think the whole thing should be totally encrypted point-to-point. I do, but it will never happen - not for the general populace. If it ever does happen there will be back doors for those new govt police we are becoming more fearful of every day.
[size=0]"Question everything, especially your media and their motives. -Me[/size]

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Post by Sinner » 08-23-2011 05:57 AM

I never worry about internet privacy because of the vast numbers of people using the internet. It is in the hundreds of millions in the US and in the billions Worldwide. You would have to be doing something substantial to stick out in that crowd.

Actually I did used to worry when I downloaded music off Winmx, I guess I don't worry anymore.
Last edited by Sinner on 08-23-2011 06:07 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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OBAMA -- The United States does not torture.

Post by cherry » 08-24-2011 04:07 PM

Internet privacy is nothing compared to torture .... microwaves, electronic weapons .... :(

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Post by Fan » 08-29-2011 02:03 PM

Bobbi Snow wrote: Well, if I may venture a thought about this...
[/B]

SNIP



I like this post. Great thread in general, but I think this is in fact the really scary part of all this, the chilling factor, the subconscious knowledge that you are always being watched.

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more than a feeling

Post by Dale O Sea » 08-29-2011 02:47 PM

Like paranoia but not just in your head. Real..
[size=0]"Question everything, especially your media and their motives. -Me[/size]

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