A Speculation on "Easter"

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eliza_nightvoice
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A Speculation on "Easter"

Post by eliza_nightvoice » 04-15-2003 09:10 PM

Easter is the oivital occurance in the religion of Christanity. They have been many speculations on what happened during that time. Centuries have layered story upon story. The earileiest recorded gospel, Mark, does not fully give an explanation. The letters of Paul, which were written during the Apotolic age, only mention a rising from the dead. No method given.

Was it a bodily resurection? A parable? Does the Shroud on Turin add any clues to what may have happened? Was it a conspiracy, and so, to what ends? The followers did not gain material weath or increased safety. Why would they have done it?

Some thing to think about this Easter weekend. And awaiting your speculations.

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Post by Riddick » 04-03-2015 06:28 PM

“He Died For Your Sins. He's Back For Your Brains.”

Was Jesus The Original Zombie?
Yes, except you eat His body. (So says The Colbert Report)

What Would Zombie Jesus Do?
The Uncyclopedia tells all.

Happy Zombie Jesus Day Song

DISCLAIMER: The satirical materials provided are meant for speculative entertainment purposes and should not be taken as a serious explaination of Christ's resurrection. Please don't kill the messenger.

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Post by kbot » 04-03-2015 08:06 PM

That was ............

anyways........ some people don't view Christianity in a satirical light. In fact, just "being Christian" gets you killed.

Kenya Mourns, Victims' Bodies Sent to Nairobi

Authorities in Kenya are moving the bodies of many of the students killed by Islamist militants at an eastern university to the capital for identification.

Families gathered in Nairobi Friday following Thursday's attack at Garissa University College, which left 148 people dead as well as the four attackers. Relatives formed lines outside of a mortuary as they waited for news of the missing.

The Kenyan government is offering a $220,000 reward for an al-Shabab member in connection with the attacks: Mohammed Mohamud Kuno, who already is on a government watch list. He is suspected to be al-Shabab's chief for external operations against Kenya.

The attack Thursday at Garissa University College is the worst in Kenya since the 1998 bombing of the U.S. Embassy by al-Qaida. The al-Shabab attackers stormed the campus before dawn Thursday and began shooting indiscriminately. Witnesses say the gunmen later targeted Christians
http://www.voanews.com/content/kenya-al ... 05244.html


14 Christians killed in Pakistan church bombings

Two suicide bombings at churches in Pakistan have claimed the lives of more than a dozen Christians in what is the latest deadly attack on the country’s Christian minorities.

At least 78 people were reportedly injured and 14 killed in the explosions at a Catholic church and nearby Christ Church in Youhanabad, Lahore.

The area is the country’s most densely populated Christian colony, with about 40,000 of the minorities and fifty churches. Both churches that were attacked attract between 300 to 400 worshippers every Sunday, which is why they were targeted. The blasts occurred minutes apart.

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/20 ... -bombings/

Another Coptic Christian Beheaded as Pope Recognizes Martyrdom of 21 Christians Killed by ISIS

The headless corpse of an Egyptian Coptic Christian has been found in eastern Libya, following the gruesome pattern of the Islamic State, which beheaded 21 Copts in a similar manner earlier this year.

http://www.gospelherald.com/articles/54 ... y-isis.htm

Iraqi Christians are raped, murdered and driven from their homes – and the West is silent

For the first time in 1,600 years, Mass is not being said in Mosul: an ancient culture has been wiped out in a matter of weeks. It's a war crime that, strangely, no one seems to want to talk about.

Mosul is the second-largest city in Iraq and the place where many Christians believe Jonah was buried. Since the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (Isis) rode into town, their faith has been forced underground. Bells have been silenced, the hijab enforced with bullets. Tens of thousands fled after being offered an unattractive choice: convert, pay a religious tax, or be put to the sword. The levy was unaffordable. According to one local news agency, Isis troops entered the house of a poor Christian and, when they didn’t get what they wanted, the soldiers raped the mother and daughter in front of their husband and father. He committed suicide out of grief.

Having driven away the worshippers, the Isis fanatics are now trying to extinguish the physical legacy they left behind. A centuries-old church has been burned to the ground; Jonah’s tomb has been desecrated. Isis wants to create the Islamic equivalent of Year Zero, a brave new world with no evidence of Christianity, women’s rights, democracy or even that most subversive of instincts, human pity.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timst ... is-silent/

I dunno, maybe it's me. Just coming home from Good Friday services and thinking about those killed in Kenya, maybe I'm not into "satire" right now.............:(

But, it would be nice if we had a president with a spine. Oh wait, that's right - one of his very first acts when elected, was to bow to foreign, Middle Eastern leaders.

Christians are far down on his list. Thanks for the back-up Obama. Wanna talk about a joke? It's on us........
There you go man, keep as cool as you can. Face piles and piles of trials with smiles. It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave. And keep on thinking free. (Moody Blues)

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Post by Dude111 » 04-05-2015 01:48 AM

eliza_nightvoice wrote: Some thing to think about this Easter weekend. And awaiting your speculations.
Yes indeed it is something to think of :)

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Post by Riddick » 04-05-2015 01:59 PM

kbot wrote: That was ............
Crass? Yeah.
kbot wrote: anyways........ some people don't view Christianity in a satirical light. In fact, just "being Christian" gets you killed.
Killing isn't crass. It's downright rude.

But seriously, satire is one thing, cold blooded murder is another. Genocide is no joke.
kbot wrote: it would be nice if we had a president with a spine. Oh wait, that's right - one of his very first acts when elected, was to bow to foreign, Middle Eastern leaders.
That's Barry for you - Comes to being a "stand up" kinda guy, he's definitely dyslexic.
kbot wrote: Christians are far down on his list. Thanks for the back-up Obama. Wanna talk about a joke? It's on us........
In dealing with issues, his public policy is all pie in the face. Heavy on the meringue!

Anahoo, back OT here's some speculation that's more scholarly -

Was Jesus' Resurrection a Sequel?
A 3-ft.-high tablet romantically dubbed "Gabriel's Revelation" could challenge the uniqueness of the idea of the Christian Resurrection.

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Post by kbot » 04-06-2015 11:04 AM

Going to leave the satire issue alone since, maybe I'm just too close to the issue to see "the fun" in it. I guess the same could be said if one were to substitute another for "Christian", say, "gays", "blacks", "Klan-members"...... Maybe it's me (and, most probably is..... ;) )

In any event, as listening to Coast about the findings on the resurrection and Specifically, the shroud of Turin. Findings from the 1980s supposedly squashed any further discussion, due to the Carbon-14 dating, except what was realized a the time f testing, was that the patch tested was a portion of the shroud that was a section which had been repaired during the Middle Ages, which made perfect sense. Taking this into account, the Carbon-14 tests were correct - for the time when the repairs were done. So, the scientific approach was flawed, but the MSM didn't report this as vehemently as they did with the original story.

One scientist who refused to accept the finding that the repair was the cause of the date being off, tested the portion of the sample that was held back in case additional testing was needed, and his test verified that the three labs (in the US, UK and Switzerland) were correct in that the patch was dated correctly - but, they had no knowledge that the sample submitted represented repair work.

Even so, as was mentioned in the broadcast, in an illuminated manuscript, dating well anterior to the earliest possible date provided by the three labs, there is a picture of the shroud showing scorch marks that, had this been a fake, shouldn't have been illustrated in such a picture IF the shroud was a fabrication that was made much later.

Also, scientists have not been able to ascribe a cause to the image on the shroud that if to be found only on one side of the material. If inks or paints had been used, it would have permeated the full depth of the material. This hasn't occurred.

Finally, another detail, the image does not penetrate fully through the material to display on both sides. Yet, the blood stains do. So, in order for the hoax proponents to be correct then, blood stains would have HAD TO BE positioned first - and be anatomically correct in regards to position, direction of flow, etc prior to any "painting", or "inked" image being applied.

One last detail, all of this was checked and rechecked using spectral analysis - another item that skeptics refuse to acknowledge.
There you go man, keep as cool as you can. Face piles and piles of trials with smiles. It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave. And keep on thinking free. (Moody Blues)

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Post by Riddick » 04-06-2015 05:09 PM

As it is based in satire, science or whatever, seems to me speculations on the Resurrection aren't all too apt to change many minds among the Christian faithful - He died, He rose, end of story, right? - OTOH, when discussing real or fabricated, the Shroud of Turin does make for an interesting artifact.

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Post by kbot » 04-07-2015 05:41 AM

You're right - I think that most people have already decided for themselves.
There you go man, keep as cool as you can. Face piles and piles of trials with smiles. It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave. And keep on thinking free. (Moody Blues)

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Post by Fan » 04-07-2015 07:17 AM

Through some amazing reading I have been doing I now realize that Easter (Ishtar) and most new testament Christianty is unwittingly a corruption of babylonian pagan beliefs stemming from Ishtar and Nimrod. This is a great joke of modern religion, they believe they are following even more ancient traditions but got hoodwinked into adopting what are in essence Satanic pagan beliefs as their main belief structure. The even more disturbing part of it is that there is a modern day sect that lives on, and more literally adopts the ways Ishtar instituted, including using child sacrifices to Moloch.

Ah, religion is a beautiful thing is it not?
The heartbreaking necessity of lying about reality and the heartbreaking impossibility of lying about it.

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle

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Post by Riddick » 04-07-2015 06:09 PM

Fan wrote: Through some amazing reading I have been doing I now realize that Easter (Ishtar) and most new testament Christianty is unwittingly a corruption of babylonian pagan beliefs stemming from Ishtar and Nimrod. This is a great joke of modern religion, they believe they are following even more ancient traditions but got hoodwinked into adopting what are in essence Satanic pagan beliefs as their main belief structure.
Why wasn't I told this in parochial school?!? I suppose it's too late to get my parents' money back.
Fan wrote: The even more disturbing part of it is that there is a modern day sect that lives on, and more literally adopts the ways Ishtar instituted, including using child sacrifices to Moloch.
Sounds like a barrel of fun. Still, given the choice I'd pick Zombie Jesus.
Fan wrote: Ah, religion is a beautiful thing is it not?
Like Tammy Faye Bakker's beauty? Only ten layers of cosmetics deep?

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Post by kbot » 04-08-2015 11:35 AM

Fan wrote: Through some amazing reading I have been doing I now realize that Easter (Ishtar) and most new testament Christianty is unwittingly a corruption of babylonian pagan beliefs stemming from Ishtar and Nimrod. This is a great joke of modern religion, they believe they are following even more ancient traditions but got hoodwinked into adopting what are in essence Satanic pagan beliefs as their main belief structure. The even more disturbing part of it is that there is a modern day sect that lives on, and more literally adopts the ways Ishtar instituted, including using child sacrifices to Moloch.

Ah, religion is a beautiful thing is it not?


OK, I'll agree with you that, as Christianity spread throughout the world that The Church adopted many pagan practices (feast days and names, etc). No doubt - granted, got ya covered.

But, if you're somehow trying to equate the substitution of pagan beliefs, and a merging into Christian belief system and using THAT as a refutation of Christ's existence, mission and resurrection - there, you lost me. But then, that's me.

I'll be the first in line to agree that various pre-Christian legends and myths from the Tammuz cults to the seasonal calendar festivals and existing temples, holy wells of Western and North Europe and so forth were unashamedly used by the Christian Church in it's early years and continued over time.

To me (IMHO), this does not discount what occurred prior to the organization and spread of "organized religion". My view is that it all happened as described - even sources exterior to Biblical sources, such as Josephus document the occurrence of Christ's life (at least).

Yes, it takes a leap of faith (which is what religion IS, after all) to accept the possibility and reality of resurrection, however, Christianity is not the only religion to have that belief, nor were they the first to conceptualize the idea.

I would take issue with pagan beliefs necessarily being "satanic" in origin and practice. Most Pagan religions do not recognize "Satan", "Lucifer", or other Judeo-Christian personifications of evil. A case could be made (ironically by the Christians being belittled) that "Pagan" = Satanic. But, this is to be remembered as a rationale for the extermination of the pre-Christian religions that Christianity was looking to replace.

And, from the Middle East to Europe, there are plenty of examples of Man's inhumanity to man. Look at the human sacrifices from the Canaanites with Molech and Ba'al to the emperor worship of Rome. So, the question maybe should be "Is this 'Satanism', or really more a question of how people treat each other"? As far as I know, Rome did not recognize "Satan" either.........

In another vein, I LOVE looking at, reading and exploring the many ways that the old pagan beliefs have developed, what their history and practices are, and even how they were subsumed into Christianity. In a way, if it weren't for Christianity absorbing these cultures and beliefs, we'd know practically nothing about them, so, for that at least, we should be thankful.

I love opening almanacs and seeing references to seasonal festivals and cultural events, such as the ember days, which were originally based on pagan beliefs, or seeing pictures of European cathedrals with pagan sculptures alongside saints, or labyrinths incorporated into church architecture.

The existence of these in and of itself does not negate the fact that Christ existed and (as I and many others believe) was resurrected. Using people's bad behavior shouldn't be used as proof of the non-existence of God or Christ. All this proves is that people can be messed-up......
There you go man, keep as cool as you can. Face piles and piles of trials with smiles. It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave. And keep on thinking free. (Moody Blues)

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Post by Fan » 04-08-2015 11:43 PM

kbot wrote: OK, I'll agree with you that, as Christianity spread throughout the world that The Church adopted many pagan practices (feast days and names, etc). No doubt - granted, got ya covered.

But, if you're somehow trying to equate the substitution of pagan beliefs, and a merging into Christian belief system and using THAT as a refutation of Christ's existence, mission and resurrection - there, you lost me. But then, that's me.

I'll be the first in line to agree that various pre-Christian legends and myths from the Tammuz cults to the seasonal calendar festivals and existing temples, holy wells of Western and North Europe and so forth were unashamedly used by the Christian Church in it's early years and continued over time.

To me (IMHO), this does not discount what occurred prior to the organization and spread of "organized religion". My view is that it all happened as described - even sources exterior to Biblical sources, such as Josephus document the occurrence of Christ's life (at least).

Yes, it takes a leap of faith (which is what religion IS, after all) to accept the possibility and reality of resurrection, however, Christianity is not the only religion to have that belief, nor were they the first to conceptualize the idea.

I would take issue with pagan beliefs necessarily being "satanic" in origin and practice. Most Pagan religions do not recognize "Satan", "Lucifer", or other Judeo-Christian personifications of evil. A case could be made (ironically by the Christians being belittled) that "Pagan" = Satanic. But, this is to be remembered as a rationale for the extermination of the pre-Christian religions that Christianity was looking to replace.

And, from the Middle East to Europe, there are plenty of examples of Man's inhumanity to man. Look at the human sacrifices from the Canaanites with Molech and Ba'al to the emperor worship of Rome. So, the question maybe should be "Is this 'Satanism', or really more a question of how people treat each other"? As far as I know, Rome did not recognize "Satan" either.........

In another vein, I LOVE looking at, reading and exploring the many ways that the old pagan beliefs have developed, what their history and practices are, and even how they were subsumed into Christianity. In a way, if it weren't for Christianity absorbing these cultures and beliefs, we'd know practically nothing about them, so, for that at least, we should be thankful.

I love opening almanacs and seeing references to seasonal festivals and cultural events, such as the ember days, which were originally based on pagan beliefs, or seeing pictures of European cathedrals with pagan sculptures alongside saints, or labyrinths incorporated into church architecture.

The existence of these in and of itself does not negate the fact that Christ existed and (as I and many others believe) was resurrected. Using people's bad behavior shouldn't be used as proof of the non-existence of God or Christ. All this proves is that people can be messed-up......


In my understanding Christ was Tammuz, reborn from a virgin mother in the form of Semiramis, who claimed he was the reincarnation of Nimrod, therefore both her husband and son. All from the old testament.

I mean, we can't claim this is coincidence that the bible story is the exact same as Semiramis was espousing. Her religion centered on the fact that the god of the old testament was a usurper to the throne of earth which was rightfully owned by the great dragon. In time Nimrod would be born again in the form of an anti-god (antichrist) who would free the world from the slavery of God and return it to its rightful master.
The heartbreaking necessity of lying about reality and the heartbreaking impossibility of lying about it.

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle

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Post by kbot » 04-09-2015 11:07 AM

I think that the story of the virgin birth and death on a tree motif is found repeatedly throughout history - the Odin story with him hanging on a tree for example.

One thing to remember, though, is whereas the Tammuz was reported by the OT prophet Ezekiel (living 5th- 4th century BC) as a story (myth, legend), we have contemporaneous first-hand, as well as second- and third-party documentation concerning the life of Christ from his disciples, Jewish and Roman records.
There you go man, keep as cool as you can. Face piles and piles of trials with smiles. It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave. And keep on thinking free. (Moody Blues)

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