Bernard Haisch's The God Theory

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dotcosm
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Bernard Haisch's The God Theory

Post by dotcosm » 01-01-2007 10:31 PM

Listened to the show Art did with Haisch a few weeks ago, very interesting, and very close to my own cosmological view.

One little issue stuck in my craw, though. At one point, both he and Art claimed that they were Christians. I don't know about Art, because frankly I can't trust him to tell us anything that he really believes anymore, but with Haisch, it was more confounding because he had just spent quite a bit of time discussing his beliefs, and yet to follow that up by saying he was a Christian just astounded me!

Now, to clarify, I do happen to have an extremely narrow view of what actually makes one a Christian -- a view I adopted while being fully immersed in a fundamentalist Christian church. And it's basically what John 3:16 says ("... that whosoever believes in Him...") and it doesn't just mean to believe but to accept as savior, which of course means one recognizes the need for salvation in the first place.

Nowhere in what Haisch said during that interview, did I get any impression that he felt the need for a personal savior. Why, then, would he call himself a Christian?

It makes no sense to me. In the same way, it makes no sense that the Gnostics are often called "early Christians" because they also (as far as I know) reject the concept of personal salvation.

Anyone care to comment?

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Post by vigo » 01-02-2007 01:47 AM

...perhaps covering their bases. ;)

Are they Christian in name only? Perhaps like a Jewish person with no faith. They cling to their heritage, yet do not practice their faith. I guess this could be said of many, regardless of faith.

Hard to say what a person really believes in their heart...fear often keeps us from sharing the depths of our being with one another. IMHO

Peace and Happy New Year!
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Post by Shirleypal » 01-02-2007 11:08 PM

Are they Christian in name only? Perhaps like a Jewish person with no faith. They cling to their heritage, yet do not practice their faith. I guess this could be said of many, regardless of faith.


Hi Vigo, Judaism is more of a way of life than faith today. There are Orthodox Jews, Ortho-conservative, Reformed and Jews for Christ, so go figure. I can't really say I practice Judaism anymore I am reformed and rarely go to Temple, but to be honest Spiritual.

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Post by vigo » 01-03-2007 01:39 AM

Howdy Shirleypal! Arrrggghh, you got the gist of me drift me lady.

I also believe that many hungry souls are drifting towards a spiritual awakening that organized religion seems too lack...or has lost.

The Spirit of God seems to go outside Its followers when their doors are closed to Its awakenings. ;) IMVHO. :)

Be still and know that I am God
Be still and know that I am
Be still and know
Be still
Be

<a small meditation that I use when simplicity is required>

Peace :cool:

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Post by teresius » 01-08-2007 06:32 PM

dotcosm, many of the early gnostic religions were 'christian' by their own declaration. many of them felt that jesus christ was a great teacher who could facilitate their 'return' to the One. many did factor in an ultimate salvation, but it was different than modern christianity's.
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Post by dotcosm » 01-08-2007 06:38 PM

teresius wrote: dotcosm, many of the early gnostic religions were 'christian' by their own declaration. many of them felt that jesus christ was a great teacher who could facilitate their 'return' to the One. many did factor in an ultimate salvation, but it was different than modern christianity's.
I don't know, that's not the impression I'm getting so far. From what I'm reading, the gnostics were very opposed to the whole salvationist ideology, and that there's a distinction between their concept of "the Christos" and Jesus -- and I wonder if that meaning is what they associate with, rather than Jesus.

Still learning, very early in the process

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Post by teresius » 01-08-2007 10:00 PM

dotcosm, if you'll check, you'll find several resources online about the gnostic gospel of thomas that discusses christs' infancy and early childhood (you know, the stuff left out of the bible). gnostic is a very broad term and they're still trying to decide which religions/cults should be included in that category. as for salvation, the catholic encyclopedia defines gnosticism as "salvation by knowledge." the word gnostic implies 'knowledge gained first-hand (often through extraordinary means).' many of the relig./cults believed (and i think accurately) that you could be nudged or led down the path of righteousness by more enlightened teachers (and yes, many did think jesus was such a teacher), but that ultimate salvation (return to the Divine Source which created us and then 'fell' into the material world) can only be experienced. a religion without some ultimate goal would be hard to find followers for.
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Post by teresius » 01-08-2007 10:04 PM

almost forgot, the latest gnostic text is the gospel of judas, which claims that judas was the most devoted disciple and that he turned over jesus only because jesus asked him to. interesting stuff. like i said before, it's a very BROAD term.
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Post by dotcosm » 01-08-2007 10:12 PM

teresius wrote: almost forgot, the latest gnostic text is the gospel of judas, which claims that judas was the most devoted disciple and that he turned over jesus only because jesus asked him to. interesting stuff. like i said before, it's a very BROAD term.
I've heard a little about this, but it's confusing to me because that's exactly what I thought the "official" Bible said too. Or, at least that's how it seemed to me to have gone down.

As regards the generic term gnostics, yes, I agree, it emcompasses too many diverse concepts, much like any other religion I guess, lol.

The "brand" I'm focusing on right now is that described in the Nag Hammadi. I'm finding it quite interesting.

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Post by teresius » 01-09-2007 12:10 AM

the gospel of thomas is included in there, and it's a good one! jesus said "split a log and you will find me, lift a rock and i am there." that's probably why the churches left it out. some sources consider the gospel of thomas (not to be confused with the other gospel that documents christs' early years) to be gnostic and some consider it simply apocryphal. either way, it's beautiful.
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Post by LuckyStrike » 02-11-2007 12:39 AM

I actually read his book after he was on Art Bell. At the end of the book he says he is an 'independent' Christian. Christ was the son of God, but so aren't the rest of us(per his theory). Christ is just more enlightened than most. I would quote it directly but I loaned the book to a friend.

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Post by Shirleypal » 02-11-2007 12:51 AM

Welcome to the Fantastic LuckyStrike, hope to see you in the ORR aka: Original Radio Room tonight when Art comes on.

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