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Oswald's 6.5mm cartridges are seldom mentioned. Opening a can of worms!

Posted: 11-22-2016 11:42 AM
by Malaria_Kidd II
The date above is not the correct starting date as it's actually November 22, 2016 as now vs before and on November 22, 1963 :!:

I'm starting this thread today that will include my continued editing in thoughts in this OP. I will talk about the ammo and the infamous Smithsonian Institute's war relic as Lee Harvey Oswald's Italian Mannlicher Carcano 6.5mm carbine with scope going back to World War's 1 & 2. It was purchased by him, using an alias name of A. Hidell, from Kleins' Sporting Goods for $24.50 + $1.00 shipping and handling.

(Edited today as noted below: These are the prices I remember but my last extensive post about 'Ordering The Rifle' shows even cheaper prices!)

First seen by me in 'Guns and Ammo' magazine at age 13. My purchase of the same war relic carbine w/o scope from the same mail order guns store in Chicago cost me $14.50 + $1.00 shipping and handling.

Please hold your posts until this get's more in depth about the junker carbine and the ammo. :wink: When I come to the end of my experienced contribution you'll wonder why more questions have not been asked about the "rifle's shells" inside documentary films, TV specials and during investigative radio shows like Coast to Coast AM and Ground Zero. :wink:

On tonight's JFK assassination anniversary date we heard Coast to Coast AM's annual eye popping 11/22/16 show with host George Noory's great guest as Law and Order's Ben Bernaki. One male caller talked more about the weapon than I'd heard said in a long time. Arriving home I was motivated to start asking questions and add my thoughts you seldom hear about the little trivial things contributing great sadness to that bad day in November of 1963. :(

:idea: So please wait until I write "Go :!: " at the bottom of this page. :)

Here's my thoughts on the ammo and the blackest carbine in U.S. history! :( In 1966 I saw it on solitary display behind it's window inside the Smithsonian Institution.

I plan to itemize each question and my thoughts, seldom if ever mentioned, as numbered lines on down this page. For now I've got to go to bed........ :oops:

Stop in from time to time to see if there is another number. I'll begin today November 25th and continue until I conclude my thoughts on mainly the ammo and the odd quirks :shock: I had with my carbine. :realmad:

#1. How many 6.5mm cartridges remained inside the (non detachable) magazine well once it was found hidden on the 6th floor?

#2. It took me years to find out who made the "unmentionable" ammo; was it the Western Cartridge Company?

#3. Once his home was searched how many loaded bullets and how many accumulated empty casings were found? Any resulting finds could indicate Oswald had practice fired the carbine. An ex marine would likely police his brass and if none were found they likely were tossed. The key point never heard was the number of stored bullets at his place of residence! :?

#4. The Western Cartridge Company would not supply the necessary steel stripper clips. Only relic ammo would have them.

#5. The Italian relic surplus ammo my Dad bought for me were date stamped around the base for it's primer; 37, 39, 40 :!:

#6. On November 23, 1963 our high school study hall's TV showed the live news camera with the Dallas Police Department officer in the hall holding up the assassin's scoped weapon for the news crews. I said aloud to everyone the weapon's full name and the size of the bullet used. I turned even more heads when I said, "It's a piece of junk!" and no one said a word after my response. :|

#7. I first shot my Kleins Sporting Goods 6.5mm "Mid-day Special" at age 16. I would have been taller than Oswald but we might have been nearly the same weight and build. :o The damn thing kicked like a mule! :oops:

#8. Around 6 different Italian gun manufactures including Berreta Terni made the weapon. Slightly different build specs could make the ease of ammo cycling different once each round is chambered and fired inside minutely smaller or larger bore sizes. :roll:

# 9. The surplus Italian date stamped ammo I shot was not dependable with hang fire delays and duds!

#10. The carbine I once owned had too much head space allowing the fired shell casings to expand a lot making the bolt really hard to crank open! :roll:

#11. This is off topic to my experience: The magic bullet seemed to just appear on one of the two ambulance gurneys! It seemed in pristine condition. It was an exact copy of one of my relic 6.5mm round nosed bullets. But we'll never know if (a) different caliber weapon(s) were used that day. I have no idea why the Western Cartridge Company would abnormally produce ammo not meant for anything other than hunting large wild game animals but meant only for war! :?

#12. The cheap 1960's price of the relic carbine sent to Dallas from Chicago could be a dead giveaway as to what it was meant for. Believing Oswald was a patsy, just like he told us he was, could it be that it was not used to kill anyone? Maybe the evil planners told him to buy a "cheap scoped rifle". Knowing it's fate was to be eventually given away to authorities during a resulting investigation of a planned successful assassination. Back then a small price of $150 + would have bought a more dependable weapon.

# 13. I hate to end these #'s on 13 but the end of my time with that rough Italian WW I relic found me trading it in on a new Remington 870 3" Magnum shotgun. The trade in value was $15 at B&S Guns in Evansville, IN. :|

When the numbers count concludes on this seldom talked about "bullets" topic. Other than the often mentioned infamous magic bullet theory of course! I want to be sure to add that this is not a blog. So with me asking no one to post just yet, I'm hoping to avoid viewing the "Last edited by:" line :P :lol: The UK's Mysterial has me spoiled by never including the dreaded "Last edited by:" :mrgreen: ; that's been duly noted many times under my posts at FF. :wink:

A running view count notes: Now this non news topic has 2,017 views and so quickly too! :shock: I am truly surprised it's view count #'s are out pacing Jimmy Church's radio eye popper! :o 8)

This is a bit dated and it was a side link on ABC News on line just now. There's another new book out on the JFK assassination....... :(

'Oswald Did Not Fire The Fatal Shot' ... hot/23724/

"Go :!: "

MK II :|

Re: Oswald's 6.5mm cartridges are seldom mentioned. Opening a can of worms!

Posted: 02-08-2017 11:53 AM
by Malaria_Kidd II
:oops: I forgot to reply bumping this one up into New Posts so our few dedicated pirates could see I was done with my rants on a WW 1 era weapon on display at the Smithsonian Institute in Washington, D.C.

Last night's Coast to Coast AM was very good if you heard it or can hear it soon with host George Noory and author Mark Shaw :!:

:( :shock:

    MK II :idea:

    :idea: Go :!:

    Re: Oswald's 6.5mm cartridges are seldom mentioned. Opening a can of worms!

    Posted: 08-07-2017 01:02 AM
    by Malaria_Kidd II
    This dates back to November 2016 and one day this may not be available to view. :wink: So here it is.

    ABC 7 By Dan Noyes

    BOLINAS, Calif. (KGO) -- Tomorrow marks 50 years since the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. To this day, there is disagreement about what happened -- did Lee Harvey Oswald act alone, was there a conspiracy, what was the motive behind the murder? A Bay Area author with deep experience in this case has a new book and Dan Noyes has an exclusive I-Team interview.

    About 400 people were there in Dealy Plaza that day watching the president's motorcade, dozens of them taking pictures and we still don't really know what happened. However, Bolinas author Josiah Thompson says he has answered one very important question.

    Thompson's new book, "Last Second in Dallas", comes to a startling conclusion about Lee Harvey Oswald, who was arrested for shooting the president from the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository in Dallas. Thompson read to us, "Whatever Lee Harvey Oswald did or did not do on that Friday 50 years ago. He did not kill John Kennedy."

    Before you dismiss Thompson as another conspiracy theorist, consider his background. He served on Underwater Demolition Team 21 -- the precursor to the Navy SEALs -- graduated from Yale with a Ph.D. in philosophy, taught college courses and had a long career as a private investigator. His most famous case was investigating Oklahoma City Bomber Timothy McVeigh.

    What is most important to this story is how Life Magazine hired him in 1966 to examine JFK assassination evidence for a cover story. Thompson himself interviewed many of the key witnesses, and in 1967, he wrote what's considered to be one of the seminal books on the assassination, "Six Seconds in Dallas". He told the I-Team, "Because I worked for Life Magazine, I had access to their wonderful copies of the Zapruder film."

    Amateur cameraman Abraham Zapruder was standing on a concrete pedestal near the presidential motorcade. Thompson now says he got one important fact about the film wrong -- he thought between frames 312 and 313, the president's head moved forward 2.16 inches.

    "What that meant was, to me at the time, was that what we saw here was clearly the exit of that bullet," Thompson said. "I mean, head moves forward and you see an explosion. Well, that's the bullet coming out."

    That supported the Warren Commission's finding that Oswald acted alone, that all the shots came from behind the limo -- from the 6th floor of the Book Depository. Now, Thompson realizes that the image smears from frame 312 to 313, it's not the president's head that moves forward, it's Zapruder jerking his camera at the sound of gunfire.

    Thompson said, "So, what we were seeing in 313 and what I viewed as an exit of a bullet, because of that movement, is not that. It's very clear. It's the impact of a bullet which blows impact debris downwards and rearwards, and upwards and rearwards."

    In fact, pieces of the president's skull were recovered from the street and the grass on the far side of the limo. Thompson is now convinced, the fatal shot came from a second gunman: "It was fired from the right front from 12 feet west of the corner of the stockade fence, a very, very exact location."

    That location was at the top of the grassy knoll. Thompson makes another compelling argument for a second gunman, based on what the United States House Select Committee On Assassinations concluded. He said, "They found that the last two shots were seven tenths of a second apart."

    For his research in the 1960's, Thompson bought the same type of rifle Oswald used that day, a bolt-action Carcano made in Italy.

    Thompson demonstrated, "I pull the trigger. Now, I work the bolt, work the bolt. Now notice, I got to acquire the target in the scope. So, I've got to acquire the target then I've got to center the cross hairs before firing."

    There's no way anyone could fire two shots from that rifle within a second. Thompson told the I-Team, two gunmen equals conspiracy: "I mean there's no question any longer. Two guys did not just accidentally decide to shoot the president at the same time and place, right? If you have two different locations as firing points, you have necessarily some sort of conspiracy in the case."

    Josiah Thompson spoke on Thursday at the big conference in Dallas, marking the JFK assassination. His first book is out of print and it's fetching up to $300 a copy online. He's talking with publishers now and this new book should be out late next year.

    MK II

    Re: Oswald's 6.5mm cartridges are seldom mentioned. Opening a can of worms!

    Posted: 08-28-2017 01:30 AM
    by Malaria_Kidd II
    ORDERING THE RIFLE by Martha Moyer

    I know this is back dated, with a date unknown. But this lengthy article raises more questions than answers! :? The correct length of the carbine ordered by A. Hidell was for a 36" weapon. But apparently the darkest weapon in US history displayed today in the Smithsonian Institute is 40" in length. :?:

    I just read it all and I hope you can read sideways on some pages. :oops: It took some reading to find a mention of the Guns and Ammo magazine! I found it!

    MK II :?

    Re: Oswald's 6.5mm cartridges are seldom mentioned. Opening a can of worms!

    Posted: 09-30-2017 04:09 PM
    by Malaria_Kidd II
    Can we take it that you were tuned into Coast to Coast AM Friday at Midnight?

    Richard Syrett's guest was Donald Jeffries vs the JFK assassination and here's all of his appearances on Coast in a nutshell. I can't remember a JFK special with more revelations and speculations. 1 in 3 Open Lines calls were on topic too. :idea:

    Attn Coast Insiders.......... :o ... nald/71725

    The consensus was that Lee Harvey Oswald was not the shooter. But we knew that :!:

    MK II :?

    Re: Oswald's 6.5mm cartridges are seldom mentioned. Opening a can of worms!

    Posted: 10-01-2017 01:25 PM
    by Riddick

    Re: Oswald's 6.5mm cartridges are seldom mentioned. Opening a can of worms!

    Posted: 10-01-2017 08:54 PM
    by Malaria_Kidd II
    Tune into "cosmic JFK coincidences" with many high fives to Riddick! :o

    Richard's ad breaks of JFK's life notations is scary and Don's books must reflect the same on nearly every page! :shock:

    MK II :idea:

    Heard on the Jim Bohannon Show last night!

    Posted: 11-07-2017 09:30 AM
    by Malaria_Kidd II
    Jefferson Morely's EXTENSIVE web site :!: :o

    Here's last night's show on November 6th with Jeff's pic and bio at the bottom of the page and guest host Walter Sterling at the top. ... er-6-2017/


    JEFFERSON MORLEY is an investigative reporter and author in Washington DC who has worked as an editor and writer for the Washington Post, Salon, The New Republic, Arms Control Today, and AlterNet. Morley’s rich and provocative non-fiction narratives lay bare the inner workings of the CIA with archival research and extensive interviews.His latest book, The Ghost: The Secret Life of CIA Spymaster James Jesus Angleton (St. Martin’s, 2017), is “the best book ever written about the strangest CIA chief whoever lived,” says New York Times best-selling author Tim Weiner.The Ghost is a companion and sequel to Morley’s first book, Our Man in Mexico: Winston Scott and the Hidden History of the CIA (University of Kansas Press, 2008), a riveting and sympathetic biography of the Agency’s top man in Mexico in the revolutionary 1960s who was close friends with Angleton. Morley’s ground-breaking journalism about emerging new evidence in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy is collected in the Kindle ebook, CIA & JFK: The Last Assassination Secrets.

    All I can say is this about the assassinations of JFK and Bobby, "It was not nice to fool around with Marilyn Monroe!" :oops:

    MK II

    Re: Oswald's 6.5mm cartridges are seldom mentioned. Opening a can of worms!

    Posted: 08-26-2018 11:54 PM
    by Malaria_Kidd II
    Listen to The Armchair Historian Griffin Johnson talk briefly at 5:02 about the Manlicher Carcano 6.5mm carbine under this topic.

    Why Was Italy So Ineffective During World War II?

    :wink: The carbine in the Smithsonian was manufactured junk right out of the weapons factories! Many Italian soldiers traded in their defective Carcano bolt action rifles and carbines for World War 1 rifles!

    MK II