You can't TAX into Prosperity

[voguy]

California’s Carl’s Jr. Says So Long, Golden State
Once a corporate fixture in California, where the company began, Carl's Jr. moved its headquarters to Nashville, Tenn. some say to avoid California's onerous taxes and regulations. (Casey Christie/Zuma Press/Newscom)

To hear Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, you’d think that taxes can go up to 60% or even 80%, and businesses and investors will just … pay up. But the growing number of businesses stampeding out of high tax areas suggest that they’re very wrong.

We got more evidence of that this week when CKE Restaurants, the corporate parent of Hardee’s and Carl’s Jr. restaurants, announced that they are relocating to Nashville, Tennessee.

Hardee’s will move its headquarters from St. Louis, Missouri, to Nashville, Tennessee, one of America’s fastest growing states.

Oh, and did we mention that the state has no personal income tax?

Meanwhile, the Carl’s Jr. move puts more egg on the face of California and the political class in Sacramento. Hamburger fast food chain Carl’s Jr. was founded in California and for years has been headquartered in Carpinteria, California. The highest income tax rate in California is 13%, so moving to Tennessee, where the tax rate is zero, will save the company millions of dollars on taxes a year.

Yes, we know that CKE’s official line is that the firm is relocating because it has less need for office space as it consolidates operations. But the company executives say this with a wink. Tax savings are a big factor, as is the stifling regulatory environment on the left coast, where businesses are treated like villains and rich people as cash dispensers for big government programs. It’s not a coincidence that CKE’s CEO Andy Puzder has been one of the leading critics of high taxes and onerous rules in Washington D.C. and Sacramento.

The state legislative group ALEC finds in its latest “Rich States, Poor States” rating of the states on business climate that California ranks 44th of all the states in business competitiveness. California has lost roughly 9,000 companies over the last decade, with most of them moving to Texas, Florida, and Tennessee. Last year, in a major loss, Toyota moved its North American headquarters from the Golden State to North Texas.

Thanks to its high taxes and burdensome regulations, California’s hemorrhage of jobs and businesses won’t end soon.

Burger King recently relocated its headquarters out of the U.S. completely in favor of Canada, where the business tax rate is only about half what it is in America. Dozens of others have left through “inversions” to cut their tax burden.

So, thanks to the federal and state tax codes, American businesses are departing for friendlier shores — taking thousands of high-paying jobs with them.

Given all this, why do Clinton and Sanders keep saying that they are going to get more taxes out of the rich with higher tax rates? California is now going to get 13% of zero from Carl’s Jr., just as the state gets 13% of zero from Toyota. And Washington, D.C., will now get 35% of zero income from Burger King.

Hillary and Bernie say that they stand for the “working folks,” but the victims of their plundering the rich with high tax policies are middle-class families who are losing their jobs in California. To make America great again, one goal should be to make our national policies look more like those of Tennessee and less like those of California.

Link to Story

[Riddick]

PSHAW! Who Needs Prosperity? It's All One-Sided, Anyway -

Tax Race Inequality - Hey, It's What (Hillary) Voters Want!!

[kbot]

As far as businesses leaving for "the land where things are better", people DO have an alternative - boycott them.

If you don't like how they just packed-up and moved, firing perhaps thousands so that they can fill their coffers, fine, don't buy their stuff. Boycotts have been very effective over time.

As far as Burger King goes, I would think that, as a business, they're on the way out as people realize that fast food leads to a host of ills from obesity to hypertension to diabetes to stroke and cardiovascular disease. People are starting to eat healthier and looking to save their own skins rather than the corporate bottom line......

Also, cities and towns and states are getting fed-up with giving corporations huge tax breaks just to have them in their locale. Over in Providence, the citizens of RI are on the hook for over $78 MILLION in tax breaks to former major league pitcher Curt Shilling's 38 Studios. That's $78 MILLION for one company. The group is being sued because the money is gone, the promised jobs are gone, the corporate heads all landed just fine, thank-you, and the expectation is that the taxpayers absorb the hit. Screw that!!!!!!! Nail them to the wall....... Get the money back. Take all their assets and sell them - if the taxpayer didn't pay-up, you KNOW that eventually this is what the government would do, so why should corporations rate any better treatment than the poor and middle class people who are being made to be responsible for these losses?

The solution is simple - don't like what a company does by screwing the taxpayers after they bail - don't buy their stuff. Have them sell everything in Canada, Ireland, the Caymans, or wherever else they've flown to. See how long THAT strategy lasts when they can't sell their stuff here. I'm sure the Canadians and Irish governments will still want something for proving services such as police, fire and roads services. Without the American consumer buying their stuff, eventually, they'll fold like a cheap suit...... Develop companies here at home and let the large corporations go screw themselves.

[voguy]

Y'know, KBOT, there is a problem with the "don't buy their stuff" action.

I remember years here and over on another forum where people would bitch about Walmart. But after they bitched about losing their job to Walmart they got in the car and went to Walmart to buy stuff.

People have no convictions or loyalties.

[Riddick]

[kbot]

Y'know, KBOT, there is a problem with the "don't buy their stuff" action.

I remember years here and over on another forum where people would bitch about Walmart. But after they bitched about losing their job to Walmart they got in the car and went to Walmart to buy stuff.

People have no convictions or loyalties.

I hear ya - we have the same issue around here. But, ya know, at some point, people either have to stop bitchin' about jobs leaving, OR, do something and stop buying the products of the companies that are leaving. Walmart doesn't produce any products - they sell them. So, from that perspective, there is no manufacturing involved, although Walmart exerts a lot of influence on manufacturers by shopping for their lowest price.

I love this series that CBS News runs on products made in America.......http://abcnews.go.com/WN/MadeInAmerica

[Diogenes]

Y'know, KBOT, there is a problem with the "don't buy their stuff" action.

I remember years here and over on another forum where people would bitch about Walmart. But after they bitched about losing their job to Walmart they got in the car and went to Walmart to buy stuff.

People have no convictions or loyalties.

Hypocrisy is alive and well.

[kbot]

Y'know, KBOT, there is a problem with the "don't buy their stuff" action.

I remember years here and over on another forum where people would bitch about Walmart. But after they bitched about losing their job to Walmart they got in the car and went to Walmart to buy stuff.

People have no convictions or loyalties.

Hypocrisy is alive and well.

Well Dio, people need to decide what it is that they want - do they want a strong country, with a strong economy, with people working, people educated, less people on welfare, less crime, less people incarcerated, or do they want crap? If they want crap, they will get a race to the bottom in terms of wages, they will get crap at the stores, low-paying jobs, kids graduating college with no prospects for work, in debt up to their eyeballs. They will have crap in terms of ever-escalating property taxes to pay for the city/ town/ state workers and an education dept that pups out kids with no prospect for work because the jobs are all going overseas where they make pennies on the dollar. At some point, people need to wake up and ask themselves what kinda of country do they want to live in? We've watched our steel industry collapse, along with our clothing, electronics and high-tech industries move overseas. Now it's the automotive industry. The whole country can't live on service-type jobs........ at some point, SOMEONE needs to state what is the obvious - that these trade agreements that both the Democrats and republicans have entered into are killing this country.

[Doka]

The old "Blame" game is alive and well, people love to still blame businesses for moving, firing people, closing. When the businesses are being forced to pay higher wages, over 10 employees gota pay for the very expensive obama care, gota baby sit snotty employees, other wise face discrimination suits real or mostly imagined. Businesses are being squeezed into oblivion . Part of the reason we have open door policys on illegals is to bring DOWN wages, while states are demanded to increase wages!

This mess is what the people voted for and they call Trump mean?? Want someone to blame, go look in the mirror, Ah, there's the problem! People who sit in front of their TV and drink from the well of their favorite Marxist news network and are taught to hate and blame, like a bunch of parrots suffering from the fever,with no ability to reason for themselves. Propaganda works.

[voguy]

People are not hurting enough to care about conviction and protecting themselves. As long as they have their safety nets they don't worry. And to some extent the government gives them just enough nets to keep them from dying, all the while telling them ______ is responsible for their misery.

[kbot]

The old "Blame" game is alive and well, people love to still blame businesses for moving, firing people, closing. When the businesses are being forced to pay higher wages, over 10 employees gota pay for the very expensive obama care, gota baby sit snotty employees, other wise face discrimination suits real or mostly imagined. Businesses are being squeezed into oblivion . Part of the reason we have open door policys on illegals is to bring DOWN wages, while states are demanded to increase wages!

This mess is what the people voted for and they call Trump mean?? Want someone to blame, go look in the mirror, Ah, there's the problem! People who sit in front of their TV and drink from the well of their favorite Marxist news network and are taught to hate and blame, like a bunch of parrots suffering from the fever, with no ability to reason for themselves. Propaganda works.

It's simple, really - if businesses pay barely subsistence wages, then, how can they honestly expect people here in this country to purchase their products which, BTW, continue to go UP in price, despite being manufactured overseas where the operating costs are lower?

I agree with you on the requirements of Obamacare - and so, I really liked Sanders explanation in the other night's town hall meeting where he was explain to a business owner about how having single payer insurance would free-up the requirement of business owners to pay for the employer-sponsored aspect of healthcare. This would allow business owners to pay better salaries.

[voguy]

People forget that business is like your personal finances. You have income, and expenses. In business it's on a grander scale, and the costs/expenses are greater.

A low paying employer has two choices; pay more to keep people, or roll the dice and hope people will accept the low wage.

On the other hand people have choices too. You can stay with low pay, or look for something better. I read a SHRAM report once which had an interesting statistic which was the lower a person earned, the least they were motivated to look for something better. To me that's crazy as I would think if you were stuck in the McDonald's fry line at $8.90 p/hr for 20 hours a week, and no bennies, then you would want to find something better. I didn't say anything more on it, but in their next newsletter some folks took them to task from both sides.

A fast food worker said they didn't look for something better because they were unsure they could find something, in other words they settled for what they had and gave up. Another person person said they looked a little but lacked information on where to find another job. Yes, there are people who don't know how to look.

On the business side, an owner of a pizza parlor said he arrives at a low pay to maximize his profits. And he says he finds it odd that people would criticize him for pay low, when they won't criticize people for wanting an unreasonably high wage. He pointed out that he typically pays cooks about $13.90 p/hour and he has had "kids" come in and want $25 p/hour even though they don't know how to cook, have never worked in a restaurant, and have no formal education (no GED). When asked why $13.90 he said that if he pays less he loses his good people, but he just can't pay more because then his profits shrink which means he doesn't have cash in lean times, nor to invest back into his business to compete with other pizza places.

Personally I think we suffer a two part problem. First is the unrealistic expectation that a business owner can pay and employ any number of people at whatever they want. A good parallel to this would be if someone came to you and said; you will take me in, cloth and feed me, and provide me an allowance and you must not complain.

The second and far more important factor is that while you might not like the guy, what Trump has been saying about jobs and industry is true. The United States has lost close to 61% of the industry and jobs which it had 50-60 years ago. Until such a time as we have industry and business come back to our nation, you can't employ anyone. And the bonus to this is that when industry jobs open up paying $20 p/hour, that's when the pizza guy's employees leave and apply, then Tony the Pizza Guy has to pay more for cooks, and they cycle turns around.

However, I'm convinced that the average person would rather bitch and moan on a forum or friends than to organize and force changes in our country. In short, many are cowards.

[Doka]

I might also add that it takes a chunk of money to start a business then you pray that you have some that people want, I'm mainly speaking of smaller businesses. They don't get a weekly check to depend on, it is all up to them and some luck to keep the doors open. You need to know every expense you have, right down to the cost of electricity every day. Business owners and Farmers are 2 of the biggest forms of gamblers you'll ever know, they both spend big bucks up front and never know if they are going to make the money invested back. It is so easy to judge and assume, that these people are just rolling in gold , ha! And you are waiting for your for your pay check every week. Statistically the majority of new businesses fail in the 1st year. If it was easy , everybody would be doing the business thing. There is an old saying "Put your money where you mouth is". Those in business do.

[kbot]

I hear ya Doka - get many of the regs out as they make no sense.

[voguy]

I might also add that it takes a chunk of money to start a business then you pray that you have some that people want, I'm mainly speaking of smaller businesses. They don't get a weekly check to depend on, it is all up to them and some luck to keep the doors open.

As someone who has owned a business, and ran a million dollar business, I can honestly say that those who started it, and invested in it, never had a 40-hour week. There were times we gave up vacations. There was once I worked Christmas because the hourly guys threw a fit about having to come in. Yes, you put in a lot of money and pray. Then there is sweat equity. And despite what some people think, letting someone go is the worse thing to do and is not done without sacrifice and giving up things.