A Field Guide to Internet Trolls

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voguy
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Post by voguy » 11-14-2011 07:27 PM

Fan wrote: I want free speech. However, if someone is harming the board, then steps may be warranted. A personal warning will always be attempted before any further action is taken.


Free speech is good, but it's a double edge sword.

Sometimes free speech has it's price in collateral damage, as can be demonstrated over the years by an overzealous user making life miserable for others. I think you know of several circumstances where users, (myself included), have literally driven people off forums. Their speech was FREE, but it overstepped the grounds of decency.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson

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Riddick
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Post by Riddick » 11-14-2011 08:10 PM

Nice discussion here, folks! Lotsa good points all around.

Dunno if I've really got anything germane to add at this point aside from highlighting how...
  • 1) Fan, being in the position and acting in the capacity of master of the domain, from his perspective points out the act of trolling is a very specific set of behaviors. Consequently, and rightfully so, drastic intervention should not be decided on or executed willy-nilly.

    As an example, as I see it just being chronically challenged about certain aspects of generally accepted social decorum alone doesn't qualify - think Sheldon Cooper from The Big Band Theory - but, overlay that WITH an acute agenda of unpropitiously disrupting the lives of folks unfortunate enough to be in the vicinity, and Mr. Cooper moves into spiteful troll-terror territory BIG time (His roommate Leonard once cautioned their neighbor Penny that Sheldon is just one lab experiment gone awry from being a super-villian);
  • 2) HB3 is right when he says the term 'troll' can be very politicized. From what I've seen, such is especially the case when environments evolve in online communities where a preponderance of members (along with the administrative leadership) possess a certain commonly held and strongly felt set of views and beliefs -

    Under such conditions and unless otherwise nipped in the bud, those who express differing opinions may then be subject to ongoing accusations involving the term or some in-kind/pejorative variant, serving as an evasive substitute for engagement or discourse on subjects most folks've already made up their minds about;
  • 3) Dale astutely observes the FF's present atmosphere is alot more conducive to free and open discussion than in bygone periods. Being a member here for 11 years now (originally under the handle 'Justen Tyme'), I've found cause to take extended leaves of absence from posting here 'n there...

    Would you believe the last unbroken interval came up close to TWO FULL YEARS!? due to the toxic undercurrent permeating the board (centered in P&G and emanating from there)
  • and last but not least,
  • 4) bobbo is absolutely spot on about how groups can use 'labels' as a weapon, so much as they are often called on as THE selection of choice from the mob's arsenal of derisive coercion (this occurring even as it is so often said that compared to sticks and stones 'names' will never hurt -!)

    Now, certainly, in the course of discussion pulling people out of the safety of their own personal 'comfort zones,' as regarding their beliefs about politics, society and humanity as a whole is not without merit and can be beneficial for all sides involved -

    OTOH, the complete and utter obliteration of the opponent comfort zone when accomplished principally via negative labeling BY a dominant 'clique,' en masse against the minority merely as a means to pressure conformity to the norm, well, if that AIN'T trolling it surely IS bullying eh?
Descriptions, nomenclature, etc. it can all be a bit of a muddle at times...! In a sense needn't application of any sort of Internet field guide then come with practical limitations? For instance, a bully CAN be a troll; indeed, many are - but simply being a bully by nature does NOT NECESSARILY mean one is a serial troll, OR does it? Similarly one might find an asshat can be a bully, YET not all natural asshats are perpetual bullies -

Of course, Art is Art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water. And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, you tell me what you know...

(A feather in the cap to anyone who can identify the source of that last bit of literary non sequitur business!)


IMPORTANT P.S. - In the interest of full disclosure and as an attempt to alleviate any emotional distress or injury as may be felt as a consequence of this topic, please know NO ONE need think I started the thread for their own personal benefit!!

That said, if moving along into the future the well-being of the forum as a whole in any way DOES benefit from what's come from the discussion here thus far and what yet may follow, hey, I'm willing to take at least some of the credit ;)

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megman
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Post by megman » 11-14-2011 09:43 PM

:coolhat:
Still an Original Pirate since Aug 2000
Wanna ride the Zamboni?

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Diogenes
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Post by Diogenes » 11-14-2011 09:49 PM

megman wrote: :coolhat:


very topical:pinkjump:
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Diogenes
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Post by Diogenes » 11-14-2011 11:07 PM

Dale O Sea wrote: I've been called a troll before, as have many that post here. Joequinn fit much of the criteria put forth in the op and was banned a few times for such behaviors. I've come here JUST to read him sometimes. As I recall HB3 was labeled as such early on, as was SpaceProphet and at least a dozen others that posted in P & G last decade. I enjoy reading from most all of these forum pirates, and not for entertainment, tho I get that often, but more for enlightenment - One man's trollery is another man's impassioned reply.

But that's how I learn - I try to hear what both sides have to say and sometimes that gets messy and loud if they each care deeply about their side of the discussion.

Bobbo, you are probably right to think this guide was posted here due to you, tho I'm only ass-uming this. We are more of a community here on the FF than the commentators in the DU blog comments and coming here, even invited, guns blazing out of the gate has rubbed your foes the wrong way..at least I hope that's what it is and it's not that you've peed in their paradise, so to speak, by shutting down the circle-smirk against those damn OWS hippies. I'm getting a lot from reading the threads you've posted in, much more than I have in a long time..and it's because you are making me, and your unfortunate victims think. Just, if you would, could you dial back the personal, in your face, confrontational tone a bit - at least till you get to know us better,heh, it would go far to smooth out some of these differences of opinion clashes and promote more good, healthy argument/discussion.

----

Yes, I invited bobbo here - so blame me too. His regular haunt is having some issues and I was thinking his input here would round us out nicely. His intellect and style reminded me of our departed joequinn too - and easy to read (with dictionary handy) and we'll all learn something and grow. So far, even with the bumps, so good, IMO. As FForum trolls go, he's one of the best ones so far. ;)

Bobbo is used to posting in the wild of dvorak's blog comments, Fark, etc. I'm sure he will adjust to the more laid-back, less offensive pace we have here in time..or maybe not. We'll see. Till then I'm going to glean all I can from the good, balanced banter produced in his wake. Patience..

Here are some more links to FF troll related threads - we've got history.

showthread.php?threadid=19967

showthread.php?threadid=8914

showthread.php?postid=422754

showthread.php?postid=370323

showthread.php?postid=327667

showthread.php?postid=217992

showthread.php?threadid=6216&perpage=40&pagenumber=1



Dale - I've been reading thru these links - interesting and you were a very polite moderator relative to flygirl/guest.

So what happened to John Lear?
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Raggedyann
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Post by Raggedyann » 11-14-2011 11:31 PM

voguy wrote: Free speech is good, but it's a double edge sword.

Sometimes free speech has it's price in collateral damage, as can be demonstrated over the years by an overzealous user making life miserable for others. I think you know of several circumstances where users, (myself included), have literally driven people off forums. Their speech was FREE, but it overstepped the grounds of decency.

If folks continue to post without resorting to rude insults, what's the problem with free speech? If someone bops in here and sees a thread about something that is controversial and they wish to add their 2 cents, how does that harm a discussion forum? If somebody wishes to question the statements of another poster, I see nothing trollish about it. If folks say things that I find confusing, I will question it. And if others wish to question me, I welcome the opportunity to explain my statements and if can't explain them, I just ignore it and come back in a month. :D
Last edited by Raggedyann on 11-14-2011 11:35 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Diogenes
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Post by Diogenes » 11-14-2011 11:53 PM

This was posted by lunacatz (think I spelled that correct) to docnaz and it sounds about right -

sophisticated/intellectualized bullying



docnaz, A troll is usually someone who habitually seeks the opportunity to push buttons because they get off on pushing buttons to manipulate people rather than stimulate conversation...
Last edited by Diogenes on 11-14-2011 11:56 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Diogenes » 11-14-2011 11:57 PM

Raggedyann wrote: If folks continue to post without resorting to rude insults, what's the problem with free speech? If someone bops in here and sees a thread about something that is controversial and they wish to add their 2 cents, how does that harm a discussion forum? If somebody wishes to question the statements of another poster, I see nothing trollish about it. If folks say things that I find confusing, I will question it. And if others wish to question me, I welcome the opportunity to explain my statements and if can't explain them, I just ignore it and come back in a month. :D


Raggedy - I like that - ignore and come back in a month - funny and it works. :D
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Post by Dale O Sea » 11-15-2011 12:09 AM

Diogenes wrote: Dale - I've been reading thru these links - interesting and you were a very polite moderator relative to flygirl/guest.

So what happened to John Lear?
Polite works best and is rarely what comes natural when threads and heads get hot.. A peace-pause before I react is a good idea. Gives my brain a chance to digest facts..

Less is more a lot of the time too..iykwim Uh, moderation..duh, I get it. lol ;)

Not sure now, but last I knew he was on the abovetopsecret board - but that was awhile back.

Search is rich:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=john+lear

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Diogenes
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Post by Diogenes » 11-15-2011 12:19 AM

Dale O Sea wrote: Not sure now, but last I knew he was on the abovetopsecret board - but that was awhile back.

Search is rich:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=john+lear


Yes was reviewing Google as well- thanks for the reply.
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Raggedyann
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Post by Raggedyann » 11-15-2011 01:34 AM

Diogenes wrote: Raggedy - I like that - ignore and come back in a month - funny and it works. :D

:)

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Post by Diogenes » 11-15-2011 01:39 AM

Raggedyann wrote: :)


and right back atcha ;)
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Shades Of "strindl"! Just Sayin'...

Post by Riddick » 09-19-2017 04:45 AM

It's Been Awhile FFolks, But

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