NASA's biggest lie to be exposed.

NASA's Biggest Lie to be Exposed.

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daboodaddy
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Post by daboodaddy » 06-20-2006 01:56 AM

I appreciate your clarification, John Lear.
Thanks!

I remember nothing about water on the moon. However I wonder if the "smoke" in the 1940's photo could perhaps be a geyser, though I do not recall reading of geo-thermal activity on the moon, either.
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Post by johnlear » 06-20-2006 02:05 AM

daboodaddy wrote: I appreciate your clarification, John Lear.
Thanks!

I remember nothing about water on the moon. However I wonder if the "smoke" in the 1940's photo could perhaps be a geyser, though I do not recall reading of geo-thermal activity on the moon, either.



Could be, but a geyser would presumably go 'up' and this 'smoke/dust travels west north west for about 25 to 30 kilometers. There are rivers and lakes on the moon.
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Post by daboodaddy » 06-20-2006 02:34 AM

Water is heavier than smoke, thus less likeky to drift. I agree.

Sounds odd, but when I was a very small (before 5 years) child, I remember my parents showing me the moon from the front porch, and telling me about "vegetation". Got that translated to 5 year old vocab to "plants".
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Post by TurboPlex » 06-20-2006 03:11 AM

All planets in the solar system are inhabited by people similar to you and I. This includes Venus, Mars, Pluto and Mercury (yeah, I know NASA told you its HOT up there). The population on Mars is around 600 million. Most live underground. (for details check abovetopsecret.com the "martian' thread.

I know, I know...you just can't believe it. The good news is you don't have to.
Thanks. That is good news.
Trouble is, careful research by a member of abovetopsecret.com found this to be a picture of Apollo 9, which never left earth orbit and that in fact, the thin blue line is the atmosphere on earth.
Uh huh. Thanks for this confession. This means that you have been gathering this so called "evidence" for your lunar atmosphere assertions with no regard for the qualities of attribution, validity or applicability to your case, haven't you?

It follows then that the other "evidence" you've offered so far in support of your other related ideas posted here regarding the existence of aliens on the moon, a secret space corps and etc. are likely of similar dubious value, doesn't it?

The thing that really bothers me about you promoting these unsupportable ideas with practically nothing coherent in the way of evidence is that it makes the people here who seem to trust you (because of your reputation as being a great jet pilot or whatever it is that you are famous for) look like fools.

I've already posted the scientific reasons to conclude that the moon has no atmosphere (lunar occultation events and observations) which is the same scientific process used to derive that the much more distant Mars does have one. If you were to argue the point with actual astronomers, that would be one thing. Taking it up with your average Art Bell fan, with jobs to go to, meals to cook, bills to pay, mouths to feed, and not a lot of time to bone up on their astrophysics, well, sorry, I don't have much respect for that.
These opinions are just the ravings of John Lear, certified nut case. But hey...I got out of the straight jacket long enough to type this didn't I? Just remember, just because I'm crazy doesn't mean I'm stupid.
I don't think anyone's accusing you of being stupid, Mr Lear.
Thanks for your interest.
You are welcome.

Jim Ostrowski

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Post by johnlear » 06-20-2006 12:56 PM

Originally posted by TurboPlex


Uh huh. Thanks for this confession. This means that you have been gathering this so called "evidence" for your lunar atmosphere assertions with no regard for the qualities of attribution, validity or applicability to your case, haven't you?
Actually the photo of Apollo 9 was out of the Encyclopedia of Discovery and Exploration, the chapter titled "The Moon and Beyond by Fred Appel, Aldus Books London, 1971 Library of Congress Catalog Card No. 70-148353 page 131 lower right and was captioned, "The Apollo 10 command module seen from the LM in orbit 60 miles above the moon. What I learned here is that no matter the lofty 'apparent' credentials (one might think an Encyclopedia would not have to be checked), on the other hand making extraordinary claims from a single picture might require some thorough double checking.

Regarding my other claims, they did not come from the same Encyclopedia. Some come from government insiders. Specifically:

1. We (U.S. astronauts,scientists, etc.) have been going to the moon since 1962.
2. We (U.S. astronauts, scientists, etc.) have been going to Mars since 1966.
3. Another astronaut was killed along with Grissom, White and Chaffee in Apollo 1.
4. Mars inhabitants total about 600 million and look similar to us.

Another insider told me about the 'secret astronaut corps' now suggested by McKinnon. That insider told me the Mars Rover wash job. A caller on the C2C I did the other night told about when she worked for NASA in 1979 watching Viking Lander video when 2 men came walking into the frame. She said the video was immediately cut. She said that she and others 'ran up to master control room' and the door was locked.

Regarding my lunar atmosphere assertions they are presented in the thread and rely on the neutral point between the earth and the moon which Von Braun and others state is about 43,495 miles from the moon. Not quite the disregard for the qualities of attribution, validity and application you suggest.
It follows then that the other "evidence" you've offered so far in support of your other related ideas posted here regarding the existence of aliens on the moon, a secret space corps and etc. are likely of similar dubious value, doesn't it?
You may think 'it follows....(my) other related ideas...are of dubious value'. I prefer to think of them as informed opinions.
The thing that really bothers me about you promoting these unsupportable ideas with practically nothing coherent in the way of evidence is that it makes the people here who seem to trust you (because of your reputation as being a great jet pilot or whatever it is that you are famous for) look like fools.
A fact of life is that people generally tend to believe or at least listen to those with a higher profile than those living in obscurity or at least with a lesser public profile. I enjoy presenting challenging ideas I believe to be true whether or not they have been scientifically 'vetted'. Listening is not the same as trusting. Most people love to listen but don't necessarily buy into what I say. There is a reason that 71,000 people have viewed this thread and the reason is it is presented in a logical sequence. There is information they can check for themselves. That doesn't make them fools does it? I'm not sure where you got the 'great jet pilot' quote but before you use that again you might want to read my (as yet unwritten book), "The First 100 Dumbest Things I Ever Did In An Airplane!." I don't consider my 'a great jet pilot'. I would consider myself an extraordinarily 'lucky' jet pilot. I was certainly a 'hard working' jet pilot. But 'great jet pilot' would not be accurate.
I've already posted the scientific reasons to conclude that the moon has no atmosphere (lunar occultation events and observations) which is the same scientific process used to derive that the much more distant Mars does have one
.


Since neither of us has been to the moon (lately) I am sure you would agree that the your statement "I've already posted the scientific reasons to conclude that the moon has no atmosphere" is only 'speculation based on current science.'
Taking it up with your average Art Bell fan, with jobs to go to, meals to cook, bills to pay, mouths to feed, and not a lot of time to bone up on their astrophysics, well, sorry, I don't have much respect for that.
Maybe not. But who brings more interest into their lives? I question the 'tripe' we are fed about Venus' atmosphere, that there are no inhabitants on Mars (maybe Tithonia is a trick of light and shadows?) that there were only 3 astronauts killed in Apollo 1. I question the supposed 'scientific facts' like Giordano Bruno did. Fortunately I can't get burned at the stake. I can, however, get professionally skewered in the thread.
I don't think anyone's accusing you of being stupid, Mr Lear.
Skewered, again.

john lear
The lie is different at every level. (RCH)
Including his. (JOL)

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Post by vigo » 06-20-2006 01:39 PM

Gentlemen, my interest in this thread has gone lunar!

Mr. Lear, thank you for the comment about "informed opinion." The contributions to astronomy and other sciences by amateurs are astronomical. ;)

Thank you Mr. Ostrowski for your contributions to this thread, I will continue to read with attentive eyes.

I believe we are closer to the truth because of the intellectually formed opinions of you both.

I now go back to googling your references.
Well, better late than never, I suppose... Joe Quinn. ;)

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Post by TurboPlex » 06-20-2006 02:30 PM

OK John, thanks for the comeback.

I've got a busy day ahead with only time to write a few lines right now. When I get done this evening, I'll go back on line and post a proposal for you and any others reading or contributing to this thread to think about. For now, I'll just say this: If anything you have had to say above is actually true, there should be reasonable steps that can be taken to prove the basic technological principle behind spacecraft powered by other means besides gigantic rocket boosters like the space shuttle has, through systematic small scale experimentation. If we have been going to the moon for decades, if there were huge rockets involved in all of these flights, people most certainly would have noticed them by now, correct?

Hopefully you are not saying there are huge rockets involved, but they are somehow made silent and invisible, are you?

Because if there is an atmophere on the moon, it also is invisble.

The only speculative "science fiction" solution to this that I can offer is that perhaps the supposedly breatheable atmosphere on the moon is only a few dozen meters high above the surface, and is maintained by a hypothetical "force field" in a state of artificial compression, and is therefore unresolvable by large telescopes.

Why such a mechanism would be at all usefull being that there is no agriculture on the surface that certainly should be resolvable by such instruments, I haven't a clue.

Jim

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Post by vigo » 06-20-2006 03:17 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TurboPlex
"Because if there is an atmophere on the moon, it also is invisble."
---

...or cloaked
---

"The only speculative "science fiction" solution to this that I can offer is that perhaps the supposedly breatheable atmosphere on the moon is only a few dozen meters high above the surface, and is maintained by a hypothetical "force field" in a state of artificial compression, and is therefore unresolvable by large telescopes.

Why such a mechanism would be at all usefull being that there is no agriculture on the surface that certainly should be resolvable by such instruments, I haven't a clue. "

---

Perhaps we see what they want us to see.

Something I was reading about earlier when I googled Stephen Hawkins. I will try to find it and post it here later. It involved a side story regarding the possibility of cloaking technology.

Thanks for addressing my post.:)
Well, better late than never, I suppose... Joe Quinn. ;)

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Post by TurboPlex » 06-21-2006 01:47 AM

I propose that Mr. Lear ask any of his "insider" friends for a coherent description of the physics principles utilized by the propulsion system that is used in the government's fleet of "secret astronaut corps" space vehicles.

If he comes up with anything that makes any sense (gigantic invisible silent rockets are not in this category) we at Turbomagnetics Research Associates will build a small demo prototype and post a video of the thing levitating in the public access section of the website.

We have a nice collection of nuts, bolts, fasteners, bearings, washers, grommets, pulleys, lathes, mills, small motors, iron cores, magnets, copper tubing, amplifiers, laser beams, metal disks, transistors, wire, resistors, capacitors, chokes, soldering irons, oscilloscopes, generators etc ready to apply to this task.

How about it, Captain John?

Jim O.
Last edited by TurboPlex on 06-21-2006 01:49 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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re: proposal

Post by Dale O Sea » 06-21-2006 02:27 AM

Sounds to me like you're wanting John to do what your R&D dept can't. What was starting to become an interesting discussion again is quickly devolving.

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Post by johnlear » 06-21-2006 10:14 AM

TurboPlex wrote: I propose that Mr. Lear ask any of his "insider" friends for a coherent description of the physics principles utilized by the propulsion system that is used in the government's fleet of "secret astronaut corps" space vehicles.

If he comes up with anything that makes any sense (gigantic invisible silent rockets are not in this category) we at Turbomagnetics Research Associates will build a small demo prototype and post a video of the thing levitating in the public access section of the website.

We have a nice collection of nuts, bolts, fasteners, bearings, washers, grommets, pulleys, lathes, mills, small motors, iron cores, magnets, copper tubing, amplifiers, laser beams, metal disks, transistors, wire, resistors, capacitors, chokes, soldering irons, oscilloscopes, generators etc ready to apply to this task.

How about it, Captain John?

Jim O.


Coming right up! Will get drawings, specs, list of materials, possibly an operating model. We should be able to be in production in a year, solving the world enegy problem and releasing us from our addiction to oil. I just can't understand why I didn't think of this before. Thanks a bunch TurboPlex, you are the man!!!!
The lie is different at every level. (RCH)
Including his. (JOL)

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Re: re: proposal

Post by TurboPlex » 06-21-2006 10:51 AM

Dale O Sea wrote: Sounds to me like you're wanting John to do what your R&D dept can't. What was starting to become an interesting discussion again is quickly devolving.


Well Hi Dale! :)

Gee Dale, we are sure sorry if you are losing interest in this conversation! We'll sure miss you if you decide not to participate anymore! But hey good luck to ya and I hope you find a nice comfy thread somewhere where people are discussing whatever it is you like to talk about!

I'm am glad however that you brought up our R&D "department".

Please excuse me if I somehow gave you the impression that we are like a big company of some kind with lots of "departments", like the accounting department, the shipping department, the advertizing department and so on.

If you actually visit our site by clicking below you will see that we are a merely network of researchers with our own labs who keep in touch with each other and share each other's experimental procedures and findings on a regular basis. You will notice that our site has no advertizing; we are not there to promote any commercial, political or religious agendas whatsoever. Nor are we seeking monetary donations of any sort.

As far as trying to get John to "do" anything goes, well it's a free country and he can either do or not do anything as he pleases, just like the rest of us. But I do think that all his participation here adds up to is him just teasing us about how powerful the government is compared to us "ordinary" people.

I would like to point out however that the government of the US is supposed exist for the benefit of the people, specifically the ones it collects taxes from, does it not?

Your US tax dollars paid for the R&D pertaining to whatever advanced space vehicle propulsion systems that are supposedly bussing those "secret astronauts" around out there to all the other planets. Do you not think it's only fair that whatever knowledge base that technology was derived from and that these vehicles are using should be available to the people who paid for the research that made them possible to begin with?

Or should the government keep it all secret so that only a few select "elite" get to benefit from your tax contributions?

Jim O.

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Re: Re: re: proposal

Post by johnlear » 06-21-2006 12:05 PM

Originally posted by TurboPlex
Or should the government keep it all secret so that only a few select "elite" get to benefit from your tax contributions?
TP, I sincerely doubt that one penny of our taxes were used in the secret programs. They are financed by drug trafficking, looting saving and loans, stock market manipulations and a host of other criminal methods. Secret operation ARE EXPENSIVE! No amount of income tax is going to support THAT operation. No, your tax dollars go to support the wasteful and corrupt government of the United States of America not the 'secret' one.
The lie is different at every level. (RCH)
Including his. (JOL)

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Post by Clatu » 06-21-2006 01:07 PM

Why support it with 455 Billion each year..terrible thought -- terrible;)

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Post by Dale O Sea » 06-21-2006 01:14 PM

Well Hi Dale!

Gee Dale, we are sure sorry if you are losing interest in this conversation! We'll sure miss you if you decide not to participate anymore! But hey good luck to ya and I hope you find a nice comfy thread somewhere where people are discussing whatever it is you like to talk about... -Jim O
Well, hi Jim0! Image

Who said anything about losing interest? I said it was devolving. I've been here long enough to spot a newbie with an agenda. Yours is becoming clearer with every post you make.

Jim0, this board isn't here for my amusement or comfort. Just as it isn't here for yours or to use to call out John Lear for some pissing contest or to dazzle everyone aboard with your sarcastic wit. Ask your questions, make your points and John will address them or he won't. He's free to post what he wants.

I thought any size company could and should have an R&D dept. Just shows my business ignorance, I guess. So if you aren't wanting this info from John then your agenda here is very clear to me now. You want to spam this board with links to your site and attempt to humiliate and discredit John Lear at the same time. How far off am I?

I browse with Firefox and I don't see ads. So I wouldn't know if you had ads on that site or not - the site you leave at least two links to in your every post. Which you may as well stop doing. For one, blatant spamming is against this and most message board's rules of posting. A smart, web-savvy guy like you knows this, I'm sure. And two, anyone that is interested and hasn't been turned off by your smartass tone has already been there. So post your comments and lose the spam. Nobody wants to see it. It's against the rules here. The link in your profile is more than enough.

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