The Rich and the Rest of Us

[Iris]

Let's take a look at oil for a minute because it's a big concern to us all.

The Newt Gingrich Republican policy of "drill more, drill more" is not going to solve the problem because the problem isn't a lack of available oil. The problem is that the market is being manipulated artifically by a small cartel of companies. Much of it is called OPEC. It's arguably illegal. At least if it were US based it would be in violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act.

But consider this, and you won't see this in the newspaper. In 2000, $1 bought 1.2 euros and a barrel of oil was, say, $60. In 2008, $1 only bought 64 cents. So the value of the dollar has dropped in half, in euros. So the Europeans, who are still paying in Euros are paying the equivalent of $2.15 (well, they do have higher gas taxes). But basically, if we were paying for oil in euros instead of dollars for the last 8 years, our price would have gone from around $1.50 to around $2.15.

So half of our increase in the price of oil is the devaluation of our dollar. Why? Because the only thing we're exporting any more is dollars. Dollars are diminishing in value because they represent the wealth of our country, which is diminishing rapidly after 30 years of rape, rob, and pillage conservative economic policies.

An awful lot of the speculators in oil are just common folk buying and selling stocks, like for their 401K. It's a herd mentality. They moved into gold for a while and drove that sky high. Now they're in oil. That's not going to stop. It can be a problem, and it can cause disaster, particularly when the big speculators get in on it.

We used to have laws against this. Then Phil Gramm, John McCain's chief economic advisor, championed and pushed through the Enron loophole in 1999. That allows big time speculation in commodities like oil. So now we're back in the 1929 scenario.

[Iris]

Jon-Marcus and Cherry... yes, there are people in our society who make poor choices. There always have been and there always will be.

But there's a fundamental difference in world view between progressives and conservatives. Conservatives by and large are not fans of democracy (small d democracy) and the honest ones will be the first to tell you that. They believe in meritocracy. And the arguments you're giving stem from the conservative talk about meritocracy.

They even believe that if too many people vote, if everyone votes, that's not a good thing.

Paul Weyrich said:
“Now many of our Christians have what I call the goo-goo syndrome — good government. They want everybody to vote. I don’t want everybody to vote. Elections are not won by a majority of people, they never have been from the beginning of our country and they are not now. As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down."

Weyrich was a major advisor to the Reagan campaign, the Bush Sr. campaign, and the Bush Jr. campaign.

Then you have Democrats and liberals who believe if you give the maximum amount of power to the largest number of people, and the minimum amount of power to the elites, that you will have a positive and good society.

Where we are right now is a result of 30 years of conservative economic policy.

[Cherry Kelly]

Iris -- really hate to burst your bubble about the Democrats - while at one time it was true they were as you stated. WAS - not any more... take a good look at how they propose that THEY (since they are in control of congress) want to control refineries -- that's putting power into their hands. Just like they want to control so many other things. That is not the democrat party of the past.

I agree markets are controlling a lot of the HIKES -- in costs, but do NOT - repeat NOT forget the simple fact that China and India have CARS now -- they have created a demand far greater NOW than even 10 yrs ago - or 5 yrs ago. There is your control - demand.

Then we have the supply side problem of "lack of refineries" -- which will get worse as winter comes and these refineries change over to winter fuel....

[Psychicwolf]

Without a doubt the very best article on this subject I have read. (Iris, you must read this;SquidInk, your Mr. Verben is referenced:) ). It's long, but worth the read.

Tomgram: Steve Fraser, The Two Gilded Ages

Think of it as gilding the pain. Last year, hedge fund manager John Paulson of Paulson & Co. hauled in a nifty $3.7 billion. (Yes, you read that right.) Mainly, he did so, according to the Wall Street Journal, "by shorting, or betting against, subprime mortgage securities and collateralized debt obligations." And he wasn't alone. Hedge fund money-maker Philip Falcone of Harbinger Capital Partners raked in a comparatively measly $1.7 billion in 2007, also by shorting subprime mortgages. These are fortunes beyond imagining, made in no time at all by betting on the pure misery of others. Think of them as Las Vegas with a mean streak a mile wide.

In a week in which Citibank released news of quarterly losses of $5.1 billion and sweeping job cuts, food riots dotted the planet, oil hit $117 a barrel, and regular gas prices averaged $3.47 a gallon at the pump (with another 30 cents likely to be tacked on in the next month), Institutional Investor's Alpha magazine released its list of the 50 top hedge fund managers. In 2007, they "made" a cumulative $29 billion. (Even to slip in among the top 25, you had to take in at least $360 million.) To put this in perspective, Paulson alone made $1.6 billion dollars more than it is going to cost J.P. Morgan Chase to pick up the tanking Bear Stearns; in one hour, he made 30 times what the median American family earned all last year. And here's a little tidbit to go with that: Income inequality in 2007 was, according to the Associated Press, "at the highest level since 1928, the year before the Great Depression began."
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174922

For those of you who haven't read Tom Dispatch, I would urge you to sign up. You will get info you do not get in the MSM. It was TomDispatch that posted the reveal about the huge permanant bases that have already been built in Iraq.
showthread.php?s=&threadid=34499

[Iris]

Iris -- really hate to burst your bubble about the Democrats - while at one time it was true they were as you stated. WAS - not any more... take a good look at how they propose that THEY (since they are in control of congress) want to control refineries -- that's putting power into their hands. Just like they want to control so many other things. That is not the democrat party of the past.

Oh my gosh no!! Imagine the sheer horror of people on the left acting like people on the left!!! Calm down Cherry. It was one guy, Rep. Maurice Hinchey (D-NY), speaking at a Capitol Hill press conference.

Then the office of Rep. John Boehner (R-OH) overreacted and put out a press release "Bombshell: House Democrats Call for Government Takeover of Oil Refineries!" This was lie #1. Boehner's press release claimed, "He proposed a Washington takeover of the entire oil industry!" This was lie #2. The conservative press is having a blast spinning this all out of proportion -- and with little veracity too.

But let's look at the Republican energy policy. What the hell is it? It was done behind closed doors, so we don't know. No transparency in government for those Repubs, oh no. All we know is 1) it contained huge giveaways from the poor taxpayers to the rich oil boys, and 2) look where it's gotten us.

Bad Republicans, bad, bad.

But let one lone Democrat say some statement and the Repubs squeal like pigs in the movie "Delivery."

Give to us a freakin' break.

[Iris]

In 2007, they "made" a cumulative billion. [/url]

... while millions of Americans lose their homes. Unfreakinbelievable.

It's at times like these I hope there really is a hell -- especially for the greedy Republicans that made all this possible.

[spaceprophet]

This has been a long time in the making

Yeah what CK so conveniently failed to mention is that she and her beloved right-wing partisans not only took to the streets but staged bloody protests and stormed city halls and government offices nationwide when anyone dared to mention that the flood of SUVs and other gas guzzling vehicles the market was producing might be a bad thing, possibly at the time.

So now who was right?

Same could go with the insistence that battery operated, hydrogen, or bio-diesel fueled cars might be a good thing a long time ago. No, the right crucified those speaking out as evil communist anti-Americans long ago.

Now, she and the rest, are flip-flopping.

How mother-freakin convenient. Makes me sick.

Go ahead and protect the elitist rich. Protect Exxon and their billions a year. Bury the middle class under your worthless philosophy, rhetoric, and outdated ideology.

You're digging your own grave.

Big Oil won't build any new refineries because they want prices high and supplies tight. What freakin school did you go to?

[Iris]

{{{{{Spacephet!}}}}} Good to see you! Pull up a perch, dangle your feet and stay a while.

[spaceprophet]

Thank you, I was resurrected by the significance and the importance of this year's election...and the unfortunate death of the late great Tim Russert.

I also love exposing blatant hypocrisy.

[Shimmering Auro]

Welcome "Home" spaceprophet.

Very good to see you again.

[SquidInk]

Without a doubt the very best article on this subject I have read.

I havn't read the whole article yet PW, but this part caught my eye...

Originally posted in the article posted by Psychicwolf

Even now, there remains a trace of the old Social Darwinian rationale -- that the ascendancy of "the fittest" benefits the whole species -- and the accompanying innuendo that those consigned to the bottom of the heap are fated by nature to end up there. To that must be added a reinvigorated belief in the free market as the fairest (not to mention the most efficient) way to allocate wealth. Then, season it all with a bravura elevation of risk-taking to the status of spiritual, as well as economic, tonic. What you end up with is an intellectual elixir as self-congratulatory as the conscience-cleansing purgative that made Professor Sumner so sure in his cold-bloodedness.

Then, as now, hypocrisy and self-delusion were the final ingredients in this ideological brew. When it came to practical matters, neither the business elites of the first Gilded Age, nor our own "liquidators," "terminators," and merger and acquisition Machiavellians ever really believed in the free market or the enterprising individual. Then, as now, when push came to shove (and often way earlier), they relied on the government: for political favors, for contracts, for tax advantages, for franchises, for tariffs and subsidies, for public grants of land and natural resources, for financial bail-outs when times were tough (see Bear Stearns), and for muscular protection, including the use of armed force, against all those who might interfere with the rights of private property.

Now, let's stop to consider the overall psychological profiles, and thought patterns of those who would pursue wealth, and embrace these types of ideologies. Then we'll be closer to describing the difference between the rich and the rest of us. Ask yourself, just exactly what type of person "rises" to the "top" in the modern capitalist model.

@spaceprophet - I enjoy your posts. I also enjoy Groucho - a lot. However, I will always automatically associate you with that horribly lovable mangled bunny avatar!

[Cherry Kelly]

spaceprophet -- you really assume a lot don't you? I'm so far from right wing or left wing -- fact is when we did a map of where people stood on issues - you'd see that.

So let's put some facts on the table.
ONE: I drive a Saturn, 33-35mpg until the blooming idiots forced us to buy that 10% ethanol crud. Dropped mpg by 1-2mpg per gallon. The only members of my family that drive SUV type vehicles - one has 5 children and at one time all five required children's seats.. try fitting those seats in a small car. The other has wheelchair type vehicle. And yes, I'm one of those adults with 6 grown children and their significant others so lot of cars - and most are driving Saturns.
TWO: I've always projected upon the family to get their shopping done in route home from work, or all stops to be made in one trip. AND - none of this cruising around just to be out cruising.
THREE: I never advocated battery/combo type vehicles, though had stated they might be ok for city commutes. As a matter of fact I don't like them - for one other reason - where will all the batteries go when they quit working?
I have long complained about lack of refineries. Why are so many already drilled oil wells capped off? or gas wells? And all this BS from States with their multiple types of gas additives.
I have also been an advocate of doing things yourself - putting aside for your own future needs - learning to fix things around your home - common sense rules!
SO SPACEPROPHET -- maybe you need to take a honest look at just what you are saying or attempting to project with your ludicrous claim.

[spaceprophet]

Who you tryin to fool? You've been Bush's flag bearer and in the front lines for every charge since 2000. Not so much an apologist for every screw-up him and his administration has ever made (and will make) but the grand justifier and a gold plated, reliable conduit for right-wing talk radio pundits and their propaganda and talking points.

But what really gives me a tickle in my belly is now suddenly how you and every neocon in the country are starting to embrace what liberals have been harping about for decades. Things that the neocons use to systematically execute liberals for. Stoned, tarred and feathered, and burned at the stake in the public square.

Does this mean you're voting Obama in November Cherry?

I bet she is folks. Even if she says she isn't. Her lord Rush might be reading...or the NSA.

[spaceprophet]

We used to have laws against this. Then Phil Gramm, John McCain's chief economic advisor, championed and pushed through the Enron loophole

You are so right Iris. Because America is throwing billions of dollars a month down the tubes wastefully to corrupt US contractors in Iraq and dirty Iraqi politicians, we've been forced to go deep in debt at the federal level. The dollar's value is rapidly deteriorating. It can't buy what it use to. And the rest of the world knows it.

Also, what really changed the market were the big pension and investment funds. Major investors turned their attention to the commodities indexes (food & oil), investments that promised substantially higher returns than investing in the stock market. The more the funds invested, the higher the prices went, especially since the market for speculative commodities securities is very small. Even minor shifts in the portfolios of large mutual funds can quickly drive up the price of oil.

Banks are buying up tankers full of oil and hoarding it. Deliberately keeping oil off the market so the price will go up. Why do this with gold anymore when oil is so much more lucrative. Wait till they start hoarding food so the price will go up. It's coming folks. And you can bet water will be next after that.

BUT, the big problem is not free market investment. That's not the biggest problem. The problem is futures market manipulation and fraud. Since Bush took office, market deregulation on a massively unprecedented scale has given birth to a tidal wave of corruption. Enron and subprime lending are just the tip of the iceberg.

The surge in oil prices has been largely the work of speculators in the energy markets rather than any actual increase in demand. Key areas in the market that have been virtually unregulated since Bush took office.

People this is the same deregulation loophole that allowed Enron to take California to the cleaners years ago. The same. And now speculators are using it to file fraudulent contracts to artificially pump up prices so they can rake in the profits.

Sure maybe, maybe, we're at peak oil. Sure India and China are demanding more. But a third of the price of oil is market speculation!

The Bush Administration won't investigate or regulate it purely because of political ideology and loyalty to their cronies.

[Shirleypal]

Spaceprophet, hey ((((((((good to see you))))))):)