Unconventional Tactics in Denver 2008?

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Post by Cherry Kelly » 07-18-2008 11:18 AM

laz -- you are wrong.
The young soldier is a graduate of same HS as my youngest son - but two years older. While they were not close friends, they both worked for the drama department to build backdrops and props. His parents used to bowl in our fall/winter bowling league. (I should mention that we have 32 teams of 5 people in our league so it is a large one.)
BTW he was not MINUS his hands, his one hand was severely burned by chemicals, the other hand less so. (connected to dismantling of WMD missile head - that is why he had to have a lot of reconstruction surgery which I also mentioned.)

THE ONLY TIME I "make up" stories is when I write books. My second book will be out later this fall.

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Post by lazarus long » 07-18-2008 05:25 PM

ck, that's really laughable that you're standing by that ridiculous story. this should prove to you that you're not hearing the truth from your sources. THERE WERE NO WMD'S IN IRAQ. i don't know how else to explain the truth to you. you don't want to hear it. maybe you're being lied to, but it's apparently with your consent and blessing (i still think that you're making it up, along with a lot of other stuff, i could show you the website that proves it, but it's been taken down ;-).

stick to fiction, as the truth seems to befuddle you.

good luck with the book(s).

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Post by Jon-Marcus » 07-18-2008 05:46 PM

There were no STOCKPILED WMD's found in Iraq after the invasion. That does not mean NO WMD's were found.
You don't think Saddam used ALL his WMD's on the Curds back in the 80's, do you? How about Gulf War Syndrome after Desert Storm? Don't you think there might have been some left-overs? Or is that simply impossible?
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Post by Shimmering Auro » 07-18-2008 06:46 PM

Jon-Marcus wrote: There were no STOCKPILED WMD's found in Iraq after the invasion. That does not mean NO WMD's were found.
You don't think Saddam used ALL his WMD's on the Curds back in the 80's, do you? How about Gulf War Syndrome after Desert Storm? Don't you think there might have been some left-overs? Or is that simply impossible?



Who knows what was found over there. For all we know, there could have been all sorts of discoveries.

The world will never know what has really taken place in Iraq. Well, unless, of course, someone in the know spills his or her beans on their deathbed.

Finding WMDs would create a whole new problem. The world would know that the United States gained possession of those weapons and you better believe there would be calls for disclosure of what would happen to them while in US control.

The useless eaters will never know the truth. The world governments are not going to expose themselves to us.

Of course these things I'm saying are just my opinion.

Trust no one. Where TPTB are, there is no such thing as truth.
Last edited by Shimmering Auro on 07-18-2008 06:57 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Cherry Kelly » 07-19-2008 11:22 AM

Just a quick repeat of previously posted URLS regarding WMDs...

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribun ... ing_1.html

http://www.cnsnews.com//ViewSpecialRepo ... 1004a.html

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=38213

===
now back to the topic of Denver and the convention...
tickets to movies will be given to the homeless --
hmm interesting... wonder what movies they will show?

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Post by lazarus long » 07-19-2008 01:48 PM

Jon-Marcus wrote: There were no STOCKPILED WMD's found in Iraq after the invasion. That does not mean NO WMD's were found.
You don't think Saddam used ALL his WMD's on the Curds back in the 80's, do you? How about Gulf War Syndrome after Desert Storm? Don't you think there might have been some left-overs? Or is that simply impossible?

no, it's not impossible at all. as a matter of fact, those are the very wmd's that ck is referring to. they did find some "left-over," degraded chemical weapons which every analyst agrees were from before the ban. they found plans to reinstate these programs ONCE THE BANS WERE LIFTED. they found the uav's that the air force knew that they had, but THEY WERE NOT EQUIPPED TO BE USED AS WEAPONS, either for dispersal of chemical weapons or otherwise. since two of the three links that ck gave were dead, here are a few:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/08/ ... 0588.shtml
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7634313/
and, since the one link that you provided that was still working kept referring to the isg, i thought that it might be beneficial to read their final report here
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/libra ... al-report/
here's a quote from that report that i found illuminating
"...when Bush made his “Axis of Evil” speech in January 2002. Saddam told them, “What can they discover, when we have nothing?” But some of the ministers were not as sure. Huwaysh said he began to wonder whether Saddam had hidden something: “I knew a lot, but wondered why Bush believed that we had these weapons,” he said. Huwaysh could not understand why the United States would challenge Iraq in such stark and threatening terms, unless it had irrefutable information."
the problem was, they assumed that the us, led by bush, would be acting logically. maybe they thought that, since it was the wmd's that frightened him so, he would send in an armed force to inspect the sites and that when he didn't find anything, that would be the end of that. this is probably why we didn't take this course. for all of his talk, bush KNEW that the wmd's weren't there. and as for the gulf war syndrome, that's probably caused by depleted uranium or some experimental vaccine that they gave to the soldiers. if it was some exotic chemical weapon, we would have found traces of it somewhere and linked it to the disease.
i really don't understand this irrational insistence on ignoring the truth. our government admits it (now), why can't you?

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Post by ibme » 07-19-2008 04:06 PM

Trust no one. Where TPTB are, there is no such thing as truth.
God, I'm glad to read some people who feel as I do (not about everything I'm sure ;) ).

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Post by lazarus long » 07-20-2008 05:33 PM

i would suggest watching the proceedings in denver VERY carefully. learn their tactics. it's only a matter of time before they're used on rank-and-file americans who aren't even protesting. but don't expect them to show all of their dirty little tricks. i'm sure that they have several nasty surprises that they won't divulge until they need to use them.
shock and awe.

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Post by Jon-Marcus » 07-20-2008 10:10 PM

our government admits it (now), why can't you?


I know they lied.
What makes you think I don't know it or can't admit it?
I think you have me confused with someone else.
I provided no link. I rarely do.
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Post by lazarus long » 07-21-2008 06:28 PM

Jon-Marcus wrote: I know they lied.
What makes you think I don't know it or can't admit it?
I think you have me confused with someone else.
I provided no link. I rarely do.

sorry for the misunderstanding, jm. i was mostly referring to ck in that post, even though i used your quote to start out with. i also misused the word "you" without qualifying who i was referring to, even though i did reference ck in the sentence before.
once again, sorry about that.

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Post by Jon-Marcus » 07-21-2008 06:57 PM

lazarus long wrote: sorry for the misunderstanding, jm. i was mostly referring to ck in that post, even though i used your quote to start out with. i also misused the word "you" without qualifying who i was referring to, even though i did reference ck in the sentence before.
once again, sorry about that.


No worries. :)

I was kinda doing the "devil's advocate" thing. ;)
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Post by lazarus long » 07-21-2008 07:19 PM

thanks for letting me clear that up! i kind-of suspected that's what was up.

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Post by Cherry Kelly » 07-22-2008 10:46 AM

laz - if you want to continue a discussion on Iraq - lets take it to a separate thread - as I have quotes from your own DEMS saying otherwise..

==
back to Denver. It is my hope that all the whoopla of problems is merely hype and that there will be no problems of any major consequences that brings harm to anyone or any shop owners or family homes, etc.

===

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Post by lazarus long » 07-22-2008 04:11 PM

i've started your thread, silly sally, and am awaiting your pearls of wisdom.

squid, while thinking of ways to fight "the man," i often come up with other methods of crowd control that they haven't come up with yet. they seem to be really effective ideas, but i hesitate to give them any more ideas.

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Post by Kaztronic » 07-23-2008 02:11 AM

lazarus long wrote: i do believe in peoples' right to protest, their right to voice their opinion and would really love to start that company to help more people do it in a more efficient fashion, with less likelihood of injuries, fatalities or arrests.


Do it!

If you can........

When and if we lose the right to protest & organize, then all will truly be lost. We're not there yet, our country is not that far gone in my opinion. The people still have power, and can effect change.

I'm also not sold on the capabilities of our governments to respond to, and effectively control protests that they do not have a tremendous amount of lead time to prepare for such as the upcoming conventions.

Quick story (what I am basing my opinion on as far as the limits of local police forces when it comes to dealing with crowd control):

The only protest I ever took part in was originally supposed to be a candle-light vigil for Matthew Shepard who had just passed away from the injuries sustained during his horrific beating/crucifixion. This took place about ten years ago.

Several hundred people were assembled near Central Park, in front of the Plaza Hotel, what began as a vigil turned in to a march down Fifth Avenue. Traffic was halted as the police lost control of the crowd, which had swelled to thousands. Despite mass arrests of many of the organizers of the vigil - now march, and despite the beatings in plain sight, the march continued down Fifth Avenue as it made it's way towards Madison Square Park (Mayor Ghouliani had banned all forms of protest anywhere near City Hall years earlier).

I recall (with a smile) that my friend Mike and I had somehow made our way up near the front of the march and up ahead, the police had decided to make a stand and stop the march from continuing. Lined up with their NYPD golf carts, commandeered city buses, stood a heck of a lot of cops with shields - waiting for us. I remember Mike looking at me, asking me - "are you ready?' - "yup - let's do this." The police were mid-block, ready for action. Luckily, no altercation was to come - the solution was absurdly simple, the march simply turned to the right at the intersection and we made our way to Sixth Avenue and then back down to Fifth about two blocks later :)

This move would be repeated about ten blocks further down Fifth before the police eventually gave up and allowed the march to proceed to Madison Square Park.

The actions of some of the police that day were brutal - several people were badly beaten - but the voice of the people was heard.

The march in NYC was not an isolated incident, there were several other protests across the country. In the end our elected officials heard the voice and outrage of the people and on both the local, and Federal level hate-crimes legislation was pushed to the fore.

We still have power, and we can still protest. It is a right we must never surrender. The powers of the government are limited, especially when they lack the time to prepare. Goo-guns be damned.

The U.S. isn't a lost cause, and we need to try to avoid the mentality that it is - we still have the power to be heard, and to be effective in bringing about change on behalf of the people when we are motivated to do so.
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