Unconventional Tactics in Denver 2008?

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SquidInk
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Post by SquidInk » 07-23-2008 10:33 AM

Thanks for your input, Kaztronic.

I too attended a protest once as a teen - and in the words of Admiral Ackbar (roughly) - IT WAS A TRAP! It was painful, and achieved absolutely zero. I'll never do it again. It retrospect, for an entire group of anti or pro "somethings" to show up in one place, at one time, is very bad strategy... better to remain as widely dispersed as possible. Better to be unexpected, and invisible.

At the risk of sounding insensitive, and with an understanding of the hideous death Matthew Shepard suffered, let me ask you this: was it a vigil or a protest? What were you protesting? Did your (collective) efforts change anything? Was it the most direct method of bringing the change you sought?

lazarus long

I would be interested in reading your crowd control theories...

As far as anti-crowd control, I can boil my theory right down - high tech can be effectively countered with low tech, or even "no-tech" as Kaz described above...
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Post by Kaztronic » 07-23-2008 12:18 PM

SquidInk wrote:

At the risk of sounding insensitive, and with an understanding of the hideous death Matthew Shepard suffered, let me ask you this: was it a vigil or a protest? What were you protesting? Did your (collective) efforts change anything? Was it the most direct method of bringing the change you sought?


Doesn't sound insensitive at all. My understanding before I showed up was that it was going to be a candle-light vigil - my friend and I had heard nothing about a march. It's entirely possible that the organizers had planned for their to be a march all along however.

Was it effective or not? Yes, I believe it was - and as you mentioned in your above post, being dispersed did help because this march was one of many that took place across the country (although the NYC march was met with quite a bit of police resistance - I don't know if that was the case in other cities). It helped to bring attention to hate crimes, and shortly afterwards, politicians began pushing forth legislation on both the Federal and local levels. While the legislation failed on the Federal level, it did pass in many states and cities.

I can't say whether how much of that legislation was driven by the crime itself, or the public outcry afterwards.
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Post by SquidInk » 07-27-2008 11:03 AM


The U.S. Army and Colorado National Guard have announced intentions to reserve more than 500 hotel rooms for lodging during the Democratic National Convention, hinting at the number of military personnel that may be in Denver for the high-profile event that is expected to draw an estimated 50,000 protesters.
Source

Nice.

The real challenge for the Army was finding those trucker hotels with the big parking lots out back. You know, the lots big enough to park a few semis or maybe some chassis mounted mobile stun cannons, ammo trucks, goo tankers, etc...
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Post by Cherry Kelly » 07-27-2008 11:53 AM

Some snippets from email received from cousin who lives in a Denver suburb.

--- informed last Friday about roads that will be temporarily closed or rerouted during the campaign. (snip) instead of my usual half hour drive, the reroute will cause over an hour plus - one way. (snip) he received info Thurs (referring to my actual male cousin -her husband) and the companies decision to 'forgive' any absences due to rerouting. ----
===
They (& two teens) are going to take a vacation to her parents cabin up near Estes.

Did have to laugh as they had been 'poo-pooing' the idea that the convention would cause them any problems.

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Post by SquidInk » 08-19-2008 10:35 AM

Gitmo on the Platte

Let's see...

Step 1:

Show up and the convention & exercise first supposed unalterable right to free speech, assembly, privacy (against searches), etc.

Step 2:

Get removed to remote freedom "zone", and find yourself behind sharp wire, and under the watchful eye of "law enforcement". If you resist Step 2, the military will step in. You will be rocked with electro-shock persuaders, you will be soaked & immobilized with anti-traction goo - the chemical nature of which is unknowable to you, you will microwaved alive, you will have high speed bean bags slammed into your ribs until you annot resist Them. Even if you escape Their attack, your image, and other biological data will be remotely collected for storage within the System data-banks. They will remember you.

Step 3:

If you stupidly continue to express an interest in your "rights", you will be found to be in the wrong. You will be collected, and shipped to a warehouse enveloped in razor-wire, and assigned a cage. This cage will be your new home until the State gets around to accusing you.

And none of the speakers at the convention will give a single thought to any of it. In fact they know that their own success in dependent upon the such tactics. The New Plan can only be implemented in a atmosphere of hatred, fear, ignorance, and desperation.
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Post by ibme » 08-21-2008 06:44 PM

And none of the speakers at the convention will give a single thought to any of it. In fact they know that their own success in dependent upon the such tactics. The New Plan can only be implemented in a atmosphere of hatred, fear, ignorance, and desperation.
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Post by Escargot » 08-22-2008 08:01 PM

Squid Ink, I think I might have seen a military transport type plane coming into Buckley AFB/National Guard base too I think, about 2 hours ago.
I tried to find a pic of the type of plane I saw on the Internet, but I'm not sure. The plane I saw was HUGE and had 6 engines. It was flying real low not far from my house and heading toward the base. It kind of looked like the Convair XC-99, but that plane has been retired according to what I read. It looked like it had a black and gold logo on the upright tail part.
I was so hoping that this wouldn't be such a big deal. Oh well, I am not going downtown for anything, so hopefully I won't have to deal with any difficulties.
Last edited by Escargot on 08-22-2008 08:11 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by SquidInk » 08-22-2008 10:34 PM

Hello Escargot,

Wow... I am unaware of a six engine transport in use - by the American military. Maybe wcstflyer knows something I don't.

In any case, I hope the conventions come and go quietly. I wish you (and your town) well!

But it looks pretty ominous to me...
By Jeff Bliss

Aug. 22 (Bloomberg) -- Two U.S. cities will become virtual fortresses during the Democratic and Republican nominating conventions, protected by airplanes, helicopters, barriers, fences and thousands of police officers, National Guard troops and Secret Service agents.

In Denver, where Democrats assemble next week, police are spending million on equipment alone and will be bolstered by National Guard troops and hundreds of officers from surrounding suburbs. In St. Paul, Minnesota, site of the Sept. 1-4 Republican nominating convention, police are calling on 80 law- enforcement agencies to provide 3,000 officers to supplement the city's 500-person force.

Congress earmarked 0 million for security at the two meetings, where federal and local authorities are trying to guard against any dangers to candidates or convention-goers.

"We are constantly looking at what threats could harm us,'' said Malcolm Wiley, a spokesman for the U.S. Secret Service, which is overseeing security operations.

...

More than 1,000 National Guard troops will help with communication and supplies in Denver, said Captain Robert Bell, a spokesman for the Colorado National Guard. More than 1,000 Minnesota National Guard troops will help provide security at sites outside the Xcel Center that are being used by convention participants, said Lieutenant Colonel Kevin Olson, a guard spokesman.

The North American Aerospace Defense Command and the U.S. Northern Command, based at Peterson Air Force Base in Colorado Springs, will participate. Lieutenant Desmond James, a spokesman, wouldn't give specifics about NORAD's involvement. At previous conventions, the Northern Command provided medical and planning assistance and NORAD provided air cover, said Lieutenant Commander Gary Ross, a spokesman for both commands. [source]


No candidate has spoken about these startling "security" measures, and none will. The senators will speak platitudes in the forum, while out in the street the people confront Homeland Security.

Who are they protecting the conventions against? Anti-war protesters? Anti-torture protesters? People against kleptocratic plutocracies? Those are supposed to be the people attending the Denver convention!

In order to maintain the critical left/right illusion, the System will try and convince us the threat comes from terrorists & fringe radicals. The unpopular truth is that the typical person in the street is the new al qaeda. The System is crumbling for sure...
Last edited by SquidInk on 08-22-2008 11:57 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by lazarus long » 08-23-2008 05:36 AM

squidink, be careful buddy. we run where angels fear to tread.

escargot, i have to ask (as a military brat and someone who's seen TONS of weird planes and aerocraft),
are you sure that it had six engines (and where they jet engines)? that's a design that's been untouched for a while.
here's a website:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_airplane ... _each_wing

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Post by Escargot » 08-23-2008 11:35 AM

Well today the mental visual is weakening and after looking at all the different video clips on U-tube of all the different types of planes, it's all a blur. But if I were to guess today, I would say maybe it was a B52. From the video clips I just saw it looks like it has 8 engines and two small ones on the tips of the wings. The engines look like there is two each side by side. So it could have looked like six from the angle I saw it. Which was the under side banking about 2 blocks away.
The only other one that looked similar was the Convair B36 peacemaker video. Which looked like Jimmy Stewart at the end of the clip standing in a baseball field watching the plane fly over. But that one is retired too, I think.
Oh well, I don't know airplanes and I didn't have a camera nearby. So it goes.

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Post by SquidInk » 08-23-2008 01:20 PM

Maybe you saw a C130 outfitted with tip tanks...

The convention protesters probably need WW2 style silhouette flashcards so they can identify the armored troop units, combat aircraft, chassis mounted zapper magnetrons, & mobile goo cannons arrayed against them!

And all around them, a voice will sound,
"This land was made for you and me.."
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Post by SquidInk » 08-26-2008 10:11 AM

Gee whiz... how did I miss this one?:D
Denver Tells ACLU: No ‘Brown Note’ to Disrupt Convention Protests
by FOXNews.com
Thursday, July 24, 2008

Denver city officials on Wednesday sought to set to rest rumors about police equipment for the Democratic National Convention, saying they would not be buying devices that would incapacitate unruly protesters with sound waves or other out-of-the-ordinary technology, The (Denver) Rocky Mountain News reported Thursday.

Rumors had circulated that the city was interested in buying a system that, using sound waves, could cause people to lose control of their bowels. Because of the intended use of the system, it has been dubbed as the “brown note” in some corners.

That is truly diabolical!! Looks like we'll need to invent a combat colostomy sack to add to our counter counter protest kits.

Fortunately, it seems like the huge protests are failing to materialize. The question is - why?

Some possibilities:

1) The protest/protest suppression story was all propaganda from the very beginning, to create fear and gauge reaction. There is no military style counter protest contingency plan.

2) The rumors of heavy counter protest measures are keeping people away... effectively stifling freedom of assembly, and freedom of speech.

3) Nobody ever intended to protest, because there are no dissenting opinions, and everybody is happy with things as they are.
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Post by SquidInk » 03-17-2014 01:54 PM

lazarus long wrote: i would like to start a company to combat these weapons. it seems like the goo-guns major advantage is that it removes virtually all surface friction, making it difficult to walk or drive. i wonder if golf-shoes with spikes have been tested against it? the microwave cannon seems like it would be easy to counter as well. a little research should be able to provide a material to shield or, even better, reflect the microwave energy. bounce it back at the sick little gi's or blackwater operatives. once they abandon the cannon, it would be easy to disable.
can you imagine how furious the government would be with such a company? can you envision how quickly i would be "disappeared?"
oh, it would be worth it!
SquidInk wrote: [...] I have done a bit of thinking along these lines as well. Not just to counter weapons, but surveillance systems as well. I like the golf shoe idea, and wonder if it would work.

Let's look at the ADS microwave. This system focuses a beam of microwave energy at the target (YOU!), and the target feels a burning sensation. I'm no expert but our bodies are 90% water. Water absorbs microwave energy, and the energy is dissipated by a rise in temperature, resulting in a "heating" of the skin. Why not wear a specialized garment with water jackets built in? We know they aim for the chest, so the "water armor" needs to cover the frontal area. Essentially, baggies full of water over the target areas. Between the water armor and the skin, a heat insulator, and over the whole rig - a large monastic cloak . The cloak will have a large Jawa style cowl, with light emitting diodes sewn in to overwhelm digital camera equipment.
I would still be interested in kicking around these kind of ideas with anyone who thinks this way. Are you lurking on this thread LL?

Man, I can't believe it's nearly time for this ludicrous spectacle to begin again (the election cycle, that is).
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Post by voguy » 03-17-2014 04:03 PM

There is also the option of making these weapons and using them on the oppressors.
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Post by Riddick » 03-17-2014 04:32 PM

voguy wrote: There is also the option of making these weapons and using them on the oppressors.
Obviously not an option to be openly advocated, if only to avoid being labeled as anti government terrorists!!

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