Breaking: 7 Fatally Shot At Ft. Hood

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Post by HB3 » 11-08-2009 05:31 PM

So, you know, 13 dead and 38 wounded, but at least no one was accused of being a "coward and a bigot"...

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Post by Joolz » 11-08-2009 05:35 PM

HB3 wrote: Boy, bullies really hate being stood up to. They really, really hate it.

Bully? Really? YOU, of all people, call someone else a bully? Now, that’s laughable. Corvid just stood up to you. That’s all. And yes, YOU hated it.

No, you didn’t “win,” so you can stop beating your chest and hooting. This isn’t a contest, and there ARE no “wins.” This is real life, dude. I wasn’t going to post today, but this comment deserves a response. You bully any- and everyone who dares to disagree with you with condescension, sneers, faux-intelligentsia, and acid-laced barbs that dance oh-so-carefully around the rules – and sometimes even step over them quite blatantly. Cold, calculated, heartless. So, Corvid didn’t want to take it, and gave it back to you in spades – and not just for himself, but for all of us who’ve encountered your form of bullying. WooHoo.

Corvid at least tried to be funny. And he’s REAL. You, on the other hand, don’t even come across as a real person. You are a cartoon, a persona. Nothing you say is ever heartfelt or truly honest, but designed to ridicule and twist, to prop yourself up as an authority of some sort (of WHAT, exactly, no one knows), to stir the pot. Period. If you get a rise, you’re obviously delighted. That seems to be your whole objective, from this point of view. Who are you? Why are you here? Why should anyone care what you think if we don’t even know you?

This IS a community. Are you a part? Do you want to be? Do you care about anyone else here or just yourself? You never let down your guard. You never let anyone know you. It’s always a carefully constructed façade we see, nothing more. Let’s see… Oh yeah, you’re a musician. You want us to know that, and you obviously want our approval of that. And you supposedly teach something somewhere, but we know not what (and I guess we’re supposed to think that makes you an authority of some sort – academia being the self-promoting bunch of BS that it is). You live in Southern California, and you supposedly have something to do with an internet radio show. That’s about the extent of what we know about you. Did I get it all? The rest is all bluster, so far as I can see. Why should I CARE what you think? Give me a damn reason.

You’ve bullied me. You’ve bullied SETIsLady. You’ve bullied Corvid. And others. You’ve even bullied Linnea. Lord knows why she takes it. She’s accused you on this very thread, and rightly so from what I’ve seen, of having “a rather strange agenda here,” and of being “very quick to impunge muslims, and other races and classes of people,” an observation I, and others I’m sure, will also agree with. Yet you remain.

And now, you post to call someone else a bully. That’s your response? Really? Get a grip, man. The ugliest words on this thread came from YOUR fingers.
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Post by HB3 » 11-08-2009 06:18 PM

Can we put the "he just snapped" theory to bed now?

Fort Hood gunman had told US military colleagues that infidels should have their throats cut

Major Nidal Malik Hasan, the gunman who killed 13 at America's Fort Hood military base, once gave a lecture to other doctors in which he said non-believers should be beheaded and have boiling oil poured down their throats.

He also told colleagues at America's top military hospital that non-Muslims were infidels condemned to hell who should be set on fire. The outburst came during an hour-long talk Hasan, an Army psychiatrist, gave on the Koran in front of dozens of other doctors at Walter Reed Army Medical Centre in Washington DC, where he worked for six years before arriving at Fort Hood in July.

Colleagues had expected a discussion on a medical issue but were instead given an extremist interpretation of the Koran, which Hasan appeared to believe.

It was the latest in a series of "red flags" about his state of mind that have emerged since the massacre at Fort Hood, America's largest military installation, on Thursday.

Fellow doctors have recounted how they were repeatedly harangued by Hasan about religion and that he openly claimed to be a "Muslim first and American second."

One Army doctor who knew him said a fear of appearing discriminatory against a Muslim soldier had stopped fellow officers from filing formal complaints.

Another, Dr Val Finnell, who took a course with him in 2007 at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Maryland, did complain about Hasan's "anti-American rants." He said: "The system is not doing what it's supposed to do. He at least should have been confronted about these beliefs, told to cease and desist, and to shape up or ship out. I really questioned his loyalty."

Selena Coppa, an activist for Iraq Veterans Against the War, said: "This man was a psychiatrist and was working with other psychiatrists every day and they failed to notice how deeply disturbed someone right in their midst was."

One of Hasan's neighbours described how on the day of the massacre, about 9am, he gave her a Koran and told her: "I'm going to do good work for God" before leaving for the base.

A civilian police officer who shot him, bringing the rampage to an end, said Hasan appeared "calm" during the massacre, hiding behind a telephone pole and shooting fellow soldiers in the back as they tried to get away.

"He was firing at people as they were trying to run and hide, said Sgt Mark Todd. "Then he turned and fired a couple of rounds at me. I didn't hear him say a word, he just turned and fired."

Hasan flinched after he was shot and slid down against the pole still clutching his gun, which had a laser sight on it. The officer kicked away the weapon and handcuffed him.

He said: "The guy was breathing, his eyes were blinking. I could tell that he was fading out and he didn't say anything. He was just kind of blinking."

Senator Joe Lieberman, who chairs the US Senate Committee on Homeland Security, said there had been "strong warning signs" that Hasan was an "Islamist extremist".

The committee would ask "whether the Army missed warning signs that should have led them to essentially discharge him, he said. He added: "The U.S. Army has to have zero tolerance. He should have been gone."

But General George Casey, the Army's Chief of Staff, said it was "speculation" that military authorities failed to pick up on warning signs. "I don't want to say that we missed it," he said.

Asked if military authorities had missed warning signs Gen Casey, the Army's Chief of Staff, added: "We have to go back and look at ourselves ,and ask ourselves the hard questions. Are we doing the right things? We will learn from this.

"It's too early to draw conclusions but we will ask ourselves the hard questions about what we are doing and the changes we should make as a result of this."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... s-cut.html

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Post by Kaztronic » 11-08-2009 06:38 PM

You know what Joolz, you are every bit the bully you also claim to detest. Trying to act as if you can explain to everyone the error of their posting styles whenever someone disagrees passionately with any of the clique, and then throwing in the caveat that you will not be subject to responses (you do this frequently). You are no different in effect than that which you decry here.

What is happening here is clear - this is an attempt by a select group of people to hijack the Fantastic Forum and silence the voices of dissent here. What is laughable are the claims that HB3 and I are the ones responsible for "everyone" leaving the forum. These few threads over the past two nights now have been filled with revisionist history, attempts to lock in the administrator of this forum with two currently unpopular posters (some of the assertions were particularly ugly along those lines), and subtle threats of what is essentially a boycott if HB3 and I continue to post here, or be permitted to post here - it is HB3 and I who are trying to drive people out of here? Sorry, but that is nonsense. What is happening here and now is an attempt to drive people away from this forum, let's be clear about that. Perhaps some have left because of us - maybe they didn't like the way people like me post, perhaps they didn't like that people like me were allowed to express our political opinions without bending over and grabbing our ankles afterwards to accept the schooling by the wise ones - that's their business. To that end, I wonder how many have also left over time because their views were not welcome by the likes of the little crew trying to take over the forum right now with this pathetic little voting bloc power play?

This latest attempt at silencing dissent/diversity of opinons is no different than the attempt several months ago to either drive, or force Joe Quinn off of the forum - it's practically playing out the same way. It's worth noting that some of the same players are involved, the same players who are the only ones I have ever seen openly advocate (on more than one occasion) the planking of pirates on this ship who have viewpoints different than their own. Joe actually predicted this very thing would happen, I hate to admit how often he is right.

What happened last night was outrageous, and some of the accusations / assertions (beyond being dishonest, and certainly revisionist) were ugly beyond belief - especially towards the leadership of this forum. Ugly, Ugly Manipulation.

This is the last great push to get a few of us out of here. Well, you guys better throw the kitchen sink, dirty dishes and all in to the mix - because you're running out of gas and we aren't gone yet.

Perhaps a reality check is in order for some people here, this community is far more diverse politically/intellectually than some here might like. It is not up to you to determine if folks like HB3 and I are a part of said community - despite your demeaning, and very personal post to HB3 along those lines. People will stick up for their viewpoints here, some don't like that. Some want a single perspective, and will use manipulation to try to force a more insular group upon us. Several of the posts last night brought it right back to the political viewpoints of people like myself (for example my feelings about this President, and my "waving in the wind, standing for nothing" - a factor that plays a larger role here than is perhaps acknowledged.

You may feel free to have the next word, the last word, and all the others on this topic. More vocal people may pop in here to disagree with me about this, that is certainly their right. I am fairly certain though that I am not alone in my interpretation of these events - and I require no vindication along those lines.

Now, I'm getting back to posting about the news of the world.

I will not fade to grey.

See ya around the forum.
Last edited by Kaztronic on 11-08-2009 06:47 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by HB3 » 11-08-2009 06:50 PM

Yes, they've really been going for the throat lately, with really nasty savagery. I've asked them to stop, I've asked others to stop them...no results.

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Post by Cynthia Lynn » 11-08-2009 06:52 PM

Joolz wrote: Bully? Really? YOU, of all people, call someone else a bully? Now, that’s laughable. Corvid just stood up to you. That’s all. And yes, YOU hated it.

No, you didn’t “win,” so you can stop beating your chest and hooting. This isn’t a contest, and there ARE no “wins.” This is real life, dude. I wasn’t going to post today, but this comment deserves a response. You bully any- and everyone who dares to disagree with you with condescension, sneers, faux-intelligentsia, and acid-laced barbs that dance oh-so-carefully around the rules – and sometimes even step over them quite blatantly. Cold, calculated, heartless. So, Corvid didn’t want to take it, and gave it back to you in spades – and not just for himself, but for all of us who’ve encountered your form of bullying. WooHoo.

Corvid at least tried to be funny. And he’s REAL. You, on the other hand, don’t even come across as a real person. You are a cartoon, a persona. Nothing you say is ever heartfelt or truly honest, but designed to ridicule and twist, to prop yourself up as an authority of some sort (of WHAT, exactly, no one knows), to stir the pot. Period. If you get a rise, you’re obviously delighted. That seems to be your whole objective, from this point of view. Who are you? Why are you here? Why should anyone care what you think if we don’t even know you?

This IS a community. Are you a part? Do you want to be? Do you care about anyone else here or just yourself? You never let down your guard. You never let anyone know you. It’s always a carefully constructed façade we see, nothing more. Let’s see… Oh yeah, you’re a musician. You want us to know that, and you obviously want our approval of that. And you supposedly teach something somewhere, but we know not what (and I guess we’re supposed to think that makes you an authority of some sort – academia being the self-promoting bunch of BS that it is). You live in Southern California, and you supposedly have something to do with an internet radio show. That’s about the extent of what we know about you. Did I get it all? The rest is all bluster, so far as I can see. Why should I CARE what you think? Give me a damn reason.

You’ve bullied me. You’ve bullied SETIsLady. You’ve bullied Corvid. And others. You’ve even bullied Linnea. Lord knows why she takes it. She’s accused you on this very thread, and rightly so from what I’ve seen, of having “a rather strange agenda here,” and of being “very quick to impunge muslims, and other races and classes of people,” an observation I, and others I’m sure, will also agree with. Yet you remain.

And now, you post to call someone else a bully. That’s your response? Really? Get a grip, man. The ugliest words on this thread came from YOUR fingers.


I wasn't going to get into this and don't plan to post in this thread again, but, I have to say this.

I stand with Joolz.

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Post by Raggedyann » 11-08-2009 07:12 PM

A few years ago, late at night, I had a very revealing dialogue with HB3. We were chatting back and forth quite amiably for a couple pages. Then he morphed the conversation into sneering insults. I'm sitting behind my keyboard thinking "whaaaat'? This unexpected turn of events suddenly left me feeling foolish. I had trusted that this person was genuinely interested in what we were discussing. He had faked his interest and set me up to satiate his twisted sense of amusement. Sorry, but I thought this was bizarre and cold behavior.

I can understand why people are losing their temper.

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Post by Joolz » 11-08-2009 07:19 PM

Kaztronic wrote: You know what Joolz, you are every bit the bully you also claim to detest. Trying to act as if you can explain to everyone the error of their posting styles whenever someone disagrees passionately with any of the clique, and then throwing in the caveat that you will not be subject to responses (you do this frequently). You are no different in effect than that which you decry here.

Oh Kaz! YOU, of all people, accuse me of "[t]rying to act as if you can explain to everyone the error of their posting styles." LOL Why, thank you so very much. I'm absolutely delighted! :D Project much?

And BTW, I will continue to say that I don't care to respond if that's how I feel. Sometimes, enough is enough, and I see no point in continuing the conversation because I've said all I have to say. The right to step back belongs to any of us. I will continue to exercise it whether you, or anyone else, likes it or not, and saying so is just my way of fairly letting you know that in advance. If you want to bother to continue under those circumstances, that's up to you.

I don't care whether you post or not. Really. Same with HB3. Get over yourself. I also could care less whether you read what I write, much less agree with it. But I'm not going to sit by while you spout self-righteous, condescending nonsense any more. People HAVE left because of you. That's just reality. And hey, you've also been guilty of stalking. Hell, you stalked me when I first encountered you as a poster here. For the most part, I do my best to just avoid you.

As for the "clique." :rolleyes: Been there, seen that before. Funny thing is, those who are supposedly in this "clique" are always changing -- most of those accused of being the "leaders" of a "clique" several years ago aren't even here any more. The "clique" is in your imagination. It's an easy way out -- a way to point fingers, something besides yourself, or ourselves, to BLAME. Truth is, it doesn't exist. It's rubbish.

Hell, if we want to talk about "cliques," looking around at your supporters, I could just as easily accuse you of being in one. But I'm not because it's a ridiculous assertion from either angle. I'm just ME. I don't really "represent" any view but my OWN. I've never in my life been a part of any "clique," and I sure as hell am not NOW. Just drop it. It doesn't fit.

I'm not "pushing" for anything. I haven't called for anyone to be planked. That's BS. Manipulation? Are you sure you want to go there? Let's not and pretend we did.

ALL I'm doing is the SAME damn thing you do all the time, Kaz: I'm forcefully stating my OPINION without reserve. Not used to it? Don't like it? Look in the mirror.
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Post by Joolz » 11-08-2009 07:41 PM

HB3 wrote: Yes, they've really been going for the throat lately, with really nasty savagery. I've asked them to stop, I've asked others to stop them...no results.

And you are oh-so-innocent of any "really nasty savagery." Right? Please.

You didn't call my husband a "real ****ing prick" or a "loathsome, cerebrally inactive hippie"? You didn't say this: "Corvid, your post reveals something darkly troubling about your psyche, something of a sexual nature, so bad I'm not going to even say what it is. But I can see it, believe me. We all can."? You didn't quote Bobbi Snow and call her post "idiotic and offensive"?

Give me a break.
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Post by IronsGold » 11-08-2009 09:27 PM

Joolz wrote: And you are oh-so-innocent of any "really nasty savagery." Right? Please.

You didn't call my husband a "real ****ing prick" or a "loathsome, cerebrally inactive hippie"? You didn't say this: "Corvid, your post reveals something darkly troubling about your psyche, something of a sexual nature, so bad I'm not going to even say what it is. But I can see it, believe me. We all can."? You didn't quote Bobbi Snow and call her post "idiotic and offensive"?

Give me a break.


I've gotta agree here. I see Corvid as the type of guy I'd like to share a real good brandy with, and discuss literature. Maybe at that pub you two like so much. Biker feels the same I know, but he only reads philosophy!

What I mean is, Corvid is someone we all respect, and we don't take kindly to him being dissed like that.
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Post by Joolz » 11-08-2009 09:47 PM

Thank you, IronsGold. That means a lot to both Corvid and I. We'd like that, too. Sounds like a good time. :) Maybe someday, we'll get to do that.
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Post by joequinn » 11-09-2009 10:29 AM

The unanswered question: was the Ford Hood Incident (which, perhaps not accidentally, was staged on Guy Fawkes Day) a generalized military uprising against the Obama Administration, especially in light of his escalation of the fundamentally unwinable Afghan War?

Enquiring minds wanna know...
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Post by Live365 » 11-09-2009 10:35 AM

If it appears that there is a bit of an “in-crowd” here, there’s a reason for it. There is. An in-crowd. It’s what happens when people have been together for upwards of seven years. My chief complaint from the beginning of all this is when relative newbies come in and start screaming and yelling about how things are supposed to be. You can’t come late to someone else’s party, throw your coats all over, consume the beer and chips and dance in the middle of the room with a lampshade on your head, and then complain that you don’t like the music. Get to know a person before you start attacking their avatar. By the same token, if “relative newbies” aren’t welcomed, if different ideologies and personality styles aren’t tolerated, if mistakes aren’t forgiven and amends never made, then yeah. It is a boring, mostly dead Internet site. If people just want to post articles all day long that can as easily be accessed on Drudge or even the C2C site, in threads that generate five views if it’s a good day, then why doesn’t somebody just go out and get a Facebook page and we’ll all go there. If any one of the people involved this weekend leaves permanently over it, I don’t see a particularly bright future. And I thought I would be the last person to hear myself say that.

Everyone behaved badly this weekend, in my right now infuriated opinion. Through it all, I saw one person, and one person alone, back away, and post a heartfelt, thoughtful mediation if not an outright apology, and that was Kaztronic. He was attacked for it. By at least five people, as far as I could tell. By the same token, it’s time for Kaz to ask himself why, every time we have one of these, he’s involved. Linda was “planked” because she wouldn’t let it go. Read the thread. Strike that. Read the threadS. But when SETIsLady, of all people, manages to get herself suspended, you know you’ve had a really, really bad day. The next thing I know, people who post once every 38 years are coming in to declare sides and reignite fights from fifteen days ago. As if that’s somehow helpful. I’m behaving badly right now by keeping this going when it appears most everyone else has moved on. But I post right now more out of fear than fury. If we are facing the final days of the Fantastic Forum because intelligent, professional adults can’t get along with each other, then shame. Shame on us all.

And as Lastmartian poignantly alluded to in another thread, what ever happened with all those dead soldiers at Fort Hood anyway? Shame on us.
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Post by HB3 » 11-09-2009 11:57 AM

Hey, has this been posted yet? I wish we could get back to the topic of this thread.

Officials: U.S. Aware of Hasan Efforts to Contact al Qaeda
Army Major in Fort Hood Massacre Used 'Electronic Means' to Connect with Terrorists
By RICHARD ESPOSITO, MATTHEW COLE and BRIAN ROSS
Nov. 9, 2009

U.S. intelligence agencies were aware months ago that Army Major Nidal Malik Hasan was attempting to make contact with people associated with al Qaeda, two American officials briefed on classified material in the case told ABC News.

It is not known whether the intelligence agencies informed the Army that one of its officers was seeking to connect with suspected al Qaeda figures, the officials said.

Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-MI), the ranking Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, said that he requested the CIA and other intelligence agencies brief the committee on what was known, if anything, about Hasan by the U.S. intelligence community, only to be refused.

In response, Hoekstra issued a document preservation request to four intelligence agencies. The letter, dated November 7th, was sent to directors Dennis Blair (DNI), Robert Mueller (FBI), Lt. Gen Keith Alexander (NSA) and Leon Panetta (CIA).

Hoekstra said he is "absolutely furious" that the house intel committee has been refused an intelligence briefing by the DNI or CIA on Hasan's attempt to reach out to al Qaeda, as first reported by ABC News.

"This is a law enforcement investigation, in which other agencies—not the CIA—have the lead," CIA spokesman Paul Gimigliano said in a response to ABC News. " Any suggestion that the CIA refused to brief Congress is incorrect."

Investigators want to know if Hasan maintained contact with a radical mosque leader from Virginia, Anwar al Awlaki, who now lives in Yemen and runs a web site that promotes jihad around the world against the U.S.

In a blog posting early Monday titled "Nidal Hassan Did the Right Thing," Awlaki calls Hasan a "hero" and a "man of conscience who could not bear living the contradiction of being a Muslim and serving in an army that is fighting against his own people."

According to his site, Awlaki served as an imam in Denver, San Diego and Falls Church, Virginia.

The Associated Press reported Sunday that Major Hasan attended the Falls Church mosque when Awlaki was there.

The Telegraph of London reported that Awlaki had made contact with two of the 9/11 hijackers when he was in San Diego.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fort-hood ... id=9030873

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Post by HB3 » 11-09-2009 12:02 PM

The above begins to touch on jihadist reaction to the event. Basically, this guy's already a hero. Here's an illuminating video. Watch this. Think about it.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WhHYiWCm8Gs&co ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WhHYiWCm8Gs&co ... edded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

One thing that occurs to me is they're in many ways speaking the language of American leftist extremism -- talk of American "genocide," colonial racism, etc. etc. You can see why the American left would be so sympathetic, and so outraged when the facts are presented. Creepy!

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