Let’s Not Be Civil

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HB3
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Post by HB3 » 04-19-2011 09:28 PM

You mean you aren't concerned that conservatism has been medically proven to cause teen suicide?

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Post by SETIsLady » 04-19-2011 09:35 PM

Unemployment benefits: not until Bush tax cuts pass, Senate GOP says
Senate Republicans pledge not to take up any issues, including extending unemployment benefits, until the Bush tax cuts and federal spending bills are sorted out.


http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2 ... e-GOP-says

Once again the vulnerable held hostage.

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Post by Kaztronic » 04-19-2011 09:48 PM

Regarding the issue at hand, the enthusiasm demonstrated for this President taking on his opponents, taking a stand on these issues seems entirely misplaced. I don't see how any case can be made for the American people having any level of confidence in him to lead, or even truly take on this issue given the reasoning stated above.

Despite it apparently being an awesome time to be a Dem, we are likely to face the reality of the Republicans retaining their majority in the House in 2012, and should they stand poised to take the Senate in 2012 (a distinct possibility), then I to may find myself casting a vote for Barack Obama as I generally stand opposed to one-party rule (regardless of how temporary and fleeting it may turn out to be). That said, such a vote would be cast without enthusiasm, and certainly without confidence in his ability, motivations, and quite frankly his political will to take matters such as this on.

We know the stated reasons for why he did the opposite of what is being advocated here just 4 months ago. Again, what possible reason is there to be enthusiastic, or even minimally confident, that when faced with similarly difficult choices (the "vulnerable held hostage" bit, which will quite obviously be in play in some form or another yet again) when this issue comes up once again in less than 2 years, why should anyone believe that he will act any differently?
Last edited by Kaztronic on 04-19-2011 09:56 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by SETIsLady » 04-19-2011 10:01 PM

Well Kaz thats why we have free will in this Country at least for the time being. You are free to support whom you wish and its not my job to convince you to do anything other than that.

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Post by HB3 » 04-19-2011 10:06 PM

You know, his support has been going down among Dems, but not that much. It does seem like Republicans overplay how much his approval rating is supposedly crashing. It has come down a bit.

As far as what's gonna happen in 2012, I don't think anyone has any real idea. But certainly, the Dems are gonna hit the "Republicans want to kill women and the elderly" thing with increasing fervency, along with the usual attempts to link the GOP with the Tea Party and "extremism."

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Post by SETIsLady » 04-19-2011 10:09 PM

rumike wrote: I saw that! I hardly ever miss Rachel. She should win a Pulizer for her investigative reporting. But she's ignored because she's a commentator. Doing the best investigative reporting around.
I haven't watched her much in the last couple of months, actually had been staying way from politics for a while, but after seeing what transpired in Wisconsin and what our Gov here in Florida is doing felt the need to get involved again.

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Post by Kaztronic » 04-19-2011 10:14 PM

SETIsLady wrote: Well Kaz thats why we have free will in this Country at least for the time being. You are free to support whom you wish and its not my job to convince you to do anything other than that.


Well, obviously. No one person could, or would convince me of whom I should support anyway. That wasn't what I was getting at with my post at all.

It is being suggested in this thread that the President should stop compromising with the opposition party, and should instead take on these issues. I am pointing out that the same reasons he is being excused for doing it last time are likely to exist next time as well (or some variation on them). I am also pointing out his previous action on this matter just 4 months ago, while asking why we should believe, expect, or have any confidence (much less enthusiasm) in him to take it on under those likely to be similar circumstances next time?
Last edited by Kaztronic on 04-19-2011 10:21 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by HB3 » 04-19-2011 10:24 PM

Not to mention the whole thing is based on a false premise. Did the Dems "compromise" on health care? No, I believe all the talk was about election mandates and the public trust.

The bill was passed through the most extraordinary measures despite massive protests and impassioned disapproval. Largely as a result, they were "shellacked" in 2010 -- and then, apparently, went insane.

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Post by SETIsLady » 04-19-2011 10:28 PM

I wasn't not happy that the Bush Tax cuts got extended. I was even more unhappy that the unemployed were held hostage for this deal. Its highly possible that he will be forced to make a decision like that again, and I for one will weigh the reasons for it at that time, and decide whether I can continue to support him.

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Post by HB3 » 04-19-2011 10:32 PM

Hey, this is great...I can actually talk without being insulted...

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Post by Shazam » 04-20-2011 07:34 AM

If anyone bends to much it`s the Republicans they seriously need to GROW SOME BALLS. I am with Krugman on one thing....to HELL with civility... Do it the Democrat way....shove it down there throat rather they LIKE it or not.

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Post by Shazam » 04-20-2011 07:42 AM

You will always have me HB3 see as were conservatives in general have spine....and accept the views of others with progressives as you said Echo chambers the only views that are important to them are there own....and those are the only ones they want to hear .I consider myself Right of center on the Economy and Center leaning left on Social issues (except Abortion) I give less than a crud who anyone sleeps with....

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Post by HB3 » 04-20-2011 09:20 AM

I don't know how to categorize myself politically and haven't for some time. I used to be a Democrat, and liberalism was pretty much my default position for quite some time. But, as is plain, it's gone far off the rails. I go back and forth as to whether this is historically unprecedented, or whether it was always like this -- in other words, did "it" change, or did I? Probably a combination of both. But I can definitely see myself being more of a liberal in a better era, like, say, the 1950s...which, despite the contemporary bias, I am more and more seeing as the intellectual and cultural height of American history.

So I'm rude and crude, and scream a bit -- "Scream When You Burn," writes Bukowski. I prefer this, definitely, to the passive aggressive hostility practiced by Rumike, which I find far more ominous. You know, as if smarmy, passive aggressive dehumanization is somehow "better" than calling someone an asshole or something. Of course it isn't. Hey, Rumike, I'm sorry I pointed out that the Raw Story article you posted about Palin was total BS. I guess this makes me unfit for civilization. Ostracism from the moral elite is really a bitch.
Last edited by HB3 on 04-20-2011 09:47 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Kaztronic » 04-20-2011 09:53 AM

Shazam wrote: If anyone bends to much it`s the Republicans they seriously need to GROW SOME BALLS. I am with Krugman on one thing....to HELL with civility... Do it the Democrat way....shove it down there throat rather they LIKE it or not.


It amazes me that the partisan fog, which so many people find themselves enveloped in, totally prevents them from seeing that BOTH sides say the exact same thing on this particular issue of "compromise". I tend to think they are willfully closing their eyes to reality. Neither party (nor their supporters) have been interested in compromise, (much less civility) for quite some time.
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Post by Joolz » 04-20-2011 09:57 AM

HB3 wrote: I don't know how to categorize myself politically and haven't for some time. I used to be a Democrat, and liberalism was pretty much my default position for quite some time. But, as is plain, it's gone far off the rails. I go back and forth as to whether this is historically unprecedented, or whether it was always like this -- in other words, did "it" change, or did I? Probably a combination of both. But I can definitely see myself being more of a liberal in a better era, like, say, the 1950s...which, despite the contemporary bias, I am more and more seeing as the intellectual and cultural height of American history.

So I'm rude and crude, and scream a bit -- "Scream When You Burn," writes Bukowski. I prefer this, definitely, to the passive aggressive hostility practiced by Rumike, which I find far more ominous. You know, as if smarmy, passive aggressive dehumanization is somehow "better" than calling someone an asshole or something. Of course it isn't. Hey, Rumike, I'm sorry I pointed out that the Raw Story article you posted about Palin was total BS. I guess this makes me unfit for civilization. Ostracism from the moral elite is really a bitch.

Just quoting this for the sake of preservation. Ignoring a poster on the internet is neither passive aggressive nor hostile. "Ignore" is a standard feature of most message boards, and is perfectly acceptable. Calling out other posters by name and harassing them, especially for things that happened on another thread, is, however, unacceptable behavior on most message boards. That said, I'm gone.
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