Make love, not war . . . .

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BenSlain
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Post by BenSlain » 09-21-2004 06:31 PM

"But they concealed this from the American public in order to defeat George McGovern in the 1972 election.'

Bunk.


And Nixon is the last person you should be mad at when it comes to Nam.
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been The champion of the world.

cherry
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Make love, not war . . . .

Post by cherry » 09-22-2004 07:52 PM

Vote for Change Tour
A Benefit for America Coming Together


Vote for Change is a loose coalition of musicians
brought together by a single idea — the need
to make a change in the direction of our country.
We share a belief that this is the most important
election of our lifetime.

We are fighting for a government that is open,
rational, just, and progressive...."

Artist Declaration

Featuring

Pearl Jam
Bruce Springsteen
R.E.M.
Dave Matthews Band
Jurassic 5
Dixie Chicks
Death Cab for Cutie
James Taylor
Ben Harper
My Morning Jacket
Jackson Browne
Bonnie Raitt
John Fogerty
Keb' Mo'
Bright Eyes
John Mellencamp
Kenny "Babyface" Edmonds
John Prine
Tracy Chapman
:o ...and more


http://www.moveonpac.org/vfc/

cherry
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Post by cherry » 09-23-2004 08:31 PM

George McGovern
The United Methodist Church
My Spiritual Journey


This month on UMC.org Profiles, George McGovern, decorated World War II veteran, politician, and humanitarian shares his faith story.

The son of a Wesleyan Methodist minister, George McGovern was born in Avon, South Dakota, on July 19, 1922. In his youth, he was an outstanding student, and his proficiency in debate won him a scholarship at Dakota Weslyan University. World War II interrupted McGovern’s education in 1943. He flew 35 combat missions as a B-24 bomber pilot in Europe, earning the Distinguished Flying Cross.

Best known for his run for the office of U.S. President against Richard Nixon in 1972, George McGovern served 22-years in Congress, and was named the first director of the Food for Peace Program in 1960 by President John F. Kennedy. Recipient of the Presidential Medal of Honor, George McGovern’s humanitarian efforts on behalf of American farmers and hungry children throughout the world, have earned him global admiration.

http://www.umc.org/interior.asp?ptid=1&mid=5602

Play Profile (MP3/Windows Media) at link above.
Or View Transcript (PDF)

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BenSlain
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Post by BenSlain » 09-23-2004 10:15 PM

You still haven't answered my question. And it was just a plain que. Not a rombaldish question.

You still didn't tell us about your dad being saved by Kerry.

And you just keep cutting and pasting flower child muck. Do you ever say anything yourself?
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Corvid
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Post by Corvid » 09-23-2004 11:38 PM

BenSlain wrote: You still haven't answered my question. And it was just a plain que. Not a rombaldish question.

You still didn't tell us about your dad being saved by Kerry.

And you just keep cutting and pasting flower child muck. Do you ever say anything yourself?



Perhaps she means that her dad was one of those thousands who did not die in Viet Nam after Kerry helped to stop a bad war derived from bad policy.

....or did we all agree to freaking forget that one?

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Post by BenSlain » 09-23-2004 11:53 PM

CORVID. I was, or was later in life, cause I was only a kid then, 100 percent against that war. Still am. But if you mean the war stopped because Kerry accused his brothers of being baby killers and standing up for the people who spit on you when you came home then I guess if thats what saved her dad then fine. I'll give it to here. And giving the circumstances of the times, maybe if thats what it took. Then OK.
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been The champion of the world.

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Post by Corvid » 09-24-2004 12:02 AM

BenSlain wrote: CORVID. I was, or was later in life, cause I was only a kid then, 100 percent against that war. Still am. But if you mean the war stopped because Kerry accused his brothers of being baby killers and standing up for the people who spit on you when you came home then I guess if thats what saved her dad then fine. I'll give it to here. And giving the circumstances of the times, maybe if thats what it took. Then OK.



I know a lot of vets. When I asked, they told me that they were NOT spit on. No one they knew were spit on. Do you know one?

There were baby killers. What the hell is so hard to understand about freaking "free fire zones"?

If you want to know who stopped the crap in SE Asia...... ask a mother.

Cuz they did.

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Post by Corvid » 09-24-2004 12:03 AM

BTW.....is good to know that you were against the war. :)

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Post by Corvid » 09-24-2004 12:08 AM

There were baby killers. What the hell is so hard to understand about freaking "free fire zones"?



Or B52s for that matter.

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Post by Joolz » 09-24-2004 12:09 AM

BenSlain wrote: But if you mean the war stopped because Kerry accused his brothers of being baby killers and standing up for the people who spit on you when you came home then I guess if thats what saved her dad then fine.

Ben... this is the popular rhetoric, but it is untrue. I listened to Kerry's 1971 testimony with my own ears recently. This is NOT what he said. He was reporting what was said TO him by a group of 'Nam vets with whom he'd recently met (in '71) at a conference in Detroit. He made no accusations, but was repeating what was TOLD to him by these vets. And they were correct. There WERE atrocities commited in Vietnam, just as there are atrocities commited in ANY war. It's the nature of war. It's just what IS.
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Post by BenSlain » 09-24-2004 12:22 AM

Corvid
Off topic. In 1981 I was a snot nose kid working in a lumber yard home center. I was like 21, 22. This guy Tim came to work with us. He was a vet. Had about ten years on all us guys. married. 2 kids. He was a vet. Great guy. We learned after a while that Going out on the town with Tim was not a good thing. After a year of working with him he got a job through some uncle of his working on a oil rig in the gulf. We were very happy for him. He had a very nervous wife and two small kids. He left for Texas and we never heard from him again. Two day out on the rig he jumped over the side. Or so thats what they think. Anyway, thats what we were told.

Move ahead 21 years. I was working one day and took this guy to a psychiatric ER and when we got inside the Dr had this kid with him. His name tag said "Tim xxxxxx student intern". It was Tims Kid. Who last time I saw him was 3 years old.

I know this has nothing to do with anything here but I wanted to tell this story to you (Corvid) because it came to me at the moment. Isn't life the most f***ed up thing?
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been The champion of the world.

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Post by Corvid » 09-24-2004 01:30 AM

It sure can be at times, Ben. Your experience nust be one of the most extreme "lil gotcha" coincidences that life could hand you. I am glad that the kid was an intern though..... when I first read I was afraid that he would be the guy that you were bringing in..... but I guess that guy had his own story.

Fella I knew died of cancer at 29. Had been a Huey pilot. Didn't smoke, didn't drink, twin daughters (5) and a son (2).

After years I went to the wedding of one of the daughters.... Mike jr answered the door. Was absolute spitting image. Took me back a bit.

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Post by Joolz » 09-24-2004 02:19 AM

Thanks for sharing that story with us, Ben... it's appreciated. How very sad. :( And yeah... it's often f***ed up, my friend.
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Make love, not war . . . .

Post by cherry » 09-24-2004 07:30 AM

Hopefully the citizens of the USA will come around by election time and replace this irresponsible crew of fanatics and liars. Speaking of which, I'm not a politician, I'm an artist, and I know it's not unusual for musicians to express their feelings in their work. I've had a few people write in with negative opinions re my stance, and I can only hope that they will find suitable vehicles for their own forms of self-expression, other than hassling me.

Eliza Gilkyson
Singer Songwriter
Austin Artists Take Lyrical Stand on War :o
On Compilation CD


13 Ways to Live


1 100 Miles - Abra Moore
2 Edge Of Nowhere - Jack Ingram
3 If Wishes Were Horses - David Baerwald
4 Notes on Air - Alejandro Escovedo
5 Highway 9 - Eliza Gilkyson
6 Damage Done, The - Butch Hancock
7 Brand New Day - Bukka Allen
8 Song Of The Low - Richard Buckner
9 Whittled By The Wind - Will Sexton
10 Things We Carried - Ian Moore
11 Yo Ho Ho / Big Ol' White Boys - Terry Allen
12 Dear Old Friend - Patty Griffin
13 Cycles - Screen Door Music

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Post by cherry » 09-24-2004 07:56 AM

originally posted by cherry
I can only hope that they will find suitable vehicles for their own forms of self-expression, other than hassling me . . . .


Mary Travers
Peter, Paul & Mary

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