The politics and government thread(s) have been merged and is/are active for posting.
It is difficult to moderate a topic of politics and government in a country with the fracture and fault lines that have developed - especially since the 'election' fiasco in Nov 2000 - and all the great harm that has resulted.
Different strategies and rules of posting were tried here at the Fantastic Forum - to have a balance in the dialogue - to encourage participation and to try to find common ground.
P&G was closed after the passage of the Military Commission Act of 2006 - which is still 'law' - although being challenged on many fronts - as I felt a personal risk and chilling possibility of harm for many of us in exercising free speech in this forum.
The intent was to re-open the P&G thread after the mid-term elections - if a 'balance of power' was restored in government. I am not sure that this is what happened. I still find it curious that the 'opposition party' was awarded victories in many areas where the 'voting' gave razor-thin margins of 'victory'. Is there some other agenda that is unfolding?
Many of the former P&G posters left during this time - and have not returned. Rombaldi returned for a short while, then abruptly left when issues of rules of posting and personal attacks came up again.
There was also an opportunistic 'attack' here in a thread upon some of the progressive posters during the time of the suspension of the P&G posting - and so I guess most of the previous politics posters have decided to not return to the forum.
So - why am I posting this 'old news' here? Don't know, really. It would be interesting to have a dialogue about this. It is an event that transpired here which has had a great impact on the Fantastic Forum.
Any thoughts?
Politics and Government threads
Moderator: Super Moderators
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Shirleypal
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I can tell you this Linnea, many former posters in the P&G were not happy the way some members here treated them and assumed you closed the P&G to get rid of them, I of course know that is not true, after you closed it down some members acted far worse than any poster in the P&G, okay for them but not the rest of us. The personal attacks against former posters was rampant and many of those members said they don't post in P&G because of what was going on in there, well I don't see those same people posting in there now since you put it back up so I guess they just want to bi*ch and rant, it is called jumping on the band wagon. I would love to see it the way it was before but who knows. I do understand why you closed it Linnea and sorry that you felt you had to, I am also happy you restored it. What I will never understand is why some complain who never posted in P&G in the first place, there are areas on the ship that don't interest me so I stay away from them, easy solution. Thanks for listening.
Re: Politics and Government threads
Linnea wrote: P&G was closed after the passage of the Military Commission Act of 2006 - which is still 'law' - although being challenged on many fronts - as I felt a personal risk and chilling possibility of harm for many of us in exercising free speech in this forum.
It is an event that transpired here which has had a great impact on the Fantastic Forum.
Any thoughts?
You statement above about why the P&G section was closed says an awful lot about the fear-riddled nation we have become, and it's a very, very sad thing to see citizens of this once great nation living in fear of their own government! I am glad to see that you opened it back up!
That said, I will admit I found the political section a bit scandalous when I first joined. It was quickly obvious however, that posts were made (for the most part), with great wit and intelligence. I found myself enjoying the discourse immensely. Anyone who couldn't take the hard verbal bashings had the option of not participating. Liberty at work! I agree that that loosing some of the members who used to post has been a real loss.
Perhaps things can return to 'normal' at some point in the future...
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government -- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry
Thanks for responding, Shirleypal and Majda.
Yes, indeed - I did notice some of the dynamics you mentioned. Good to air some of these issues out.
For my role, as a moderator, in this - I hope my stated reasons for asking that personal attacks, on all fronts, be minimized or eliminated to encourage more/not less dialogue - as well as reasons for closing the P&G thread with the threat of possible harm due to the unconscionable Military Commissions Act - were taken a face value. There was no agenda on my part - to control or suppress dialogue in politics and government beyond that.
It is too bad we all have these 'achilles heel' flashpoints in emotional reactions that cause us to become angry or discouraged from posting and reading on forums. We have all been there, or most of us.
This is a perennial problem of posting on the internet. We have the sense of being protected - as we enter the internet world from our safe places, behind the pc and monitors in our safeholds. It is quite shocking to experience the times we allow ourselves to be vulnerable to percieved or actual verbal attacks. I have been in that position so many times - in the long journey on this forum. And, we strike out in turn. Eventually, hopefully - you sort it out - and can continue with the dialogue.
Internet forums are public, not private spaces. We need to keep this in mind, when reading as well as posting.
I hope the politics and government discussions will continue. This forum, whatever its flaws and faults, does have some visibility on the internet - so, there is the chance continued discussion could have some effect in the world.
Thanks to everyone who participates on the Fantastic Forum.
Yes, indeed - I did notice some of the dynamics you mentioned. Good to air some of these issues out.
For my role, as a moderator, in this - I hope my stated reasons for asking that personal attacks, on all fronts, be minimized or eliminated to encourage more/not less dialogue - as well as reasons for closing the P&G thread with the threat of possible harm due to the unconscionable Military Commissions Act - were taken a face value. There was no agenda on my part - to control or suppress dialogue in politics and government beyond that.
It is too bad we all have these 'achilles heel' flashpoints in emotional reactions that cause us to become angry or discouraged from posting and reading on forums. We have all been there, or most of us.
This is a perennial problem of posting on the internet. We have the sense of being protected - as we enter the internet world from our safe places, behind the pc and monitors in our safeholds. It is quite shocking to experience the times we allow ourselves to be vulnerable to percieved or actual verbal attacks. I have been in that position so many times - in the long journey on this forum. And, we strike out in turn. Eventually, hopefully - you sort it out - and can continue with the dialogue.
Internet forums are public, not private spaces. We need to keep this in mind, when reading as well as posting.
I hope the politics and government discussions will continue. This forum, whatever its flaws and faults, does have some visibility on the internet - so, there is the chance continued discussion could have some effect in the world.
Thanks to everyone who participates on the Fantastic Forum.
I'm glad this is back; thank you, Linnea. And yes, I DID/DO understand why all this came about.
I believe that since the government seems hell-bent on getting our e-mails, anyway, when stored on-line, and since this has never been a closed forum, the moderators are blameless for the rest of us. As long as all uf us take responsibility for our own postings, we're fine.
I don't want to be part of a watered-down group of lackies who are afraid to storm the issues with the vim/vigor/and obstinance that we, as Patriotic Americans, still have the right to do, and must NEVER become too afraid to do!
The way I interpret things, we're okay - as long as we don't call for Americans to arm themselves and storm the gates of the White House, advocate some other form of crime, or pressure others to assassinate someone on Capitol Hill, at the FBI or the CIA. (Although Pat Robertson tried to get someone to take out Chavez, and as we can see ... they are BOTH still walking around free! But, then, Chavez isn't an American, and Pat has the shield of God...)
If we go on with this thread the way we've written in the past, perhaps Rombaldi and some of the others will see that we're still here, and come back to stay. I MISS Rombaldi - I loved his first-in-the-morning rants. I love Joe's rants. I love the way Cherry, Tiff, and IvyQ (to name just a few) stand their ground and bite back on occasion. There are a lot of political pirates whose posts I've enjoyed; I hope we can all enjoy each other again, as we pound out our individual takes on life, liberty, and the pursuit of self-righteousness.
Long live the internet; long live the Pirates of the Fantastic Forum! And, most of all, LONG LIVE all our moderators.
I believe that since the government seems hell-bent on getting our e-mails, anyway, when stored on-line, and since this has never been a closed forum, the moderators are blameless for the rest of us. As long as all uf us take responsibility for our own postings, we're fine.
I don't want to be part of a watered-down group of lackies who are afraid to storm the issues with the vim/vigor/and obstinance that we, as Patriotic Americans, still have the right to do, and must NEVER become too afraid to do!
The way I interpret things, we're okay - as long as we don't call for Americans to arm themselves and storm the gates of the White House, advocate some other form of crime, or pressure others to assassinate someone on Capitol Hill, at the FBI or the CIA. (Although Pat Robertson tried to get someone to take out Chavez, and as we can see ... they are BOTH still walking around free! But, then, Chavez isn't an American, and Pat has the shield of God...)
If we go on with this thread the way we've written in the past, perhaps Rombaldi and some of the others will see that we're still here, and come back to stay. I MISS Rombaldi - I loved his first-in-the-morning rants. I love Joe's rants. I love the way Cherry, Tiff, and IvyQ (to name just a few) stand their ground and bite back on occasion. There are a lot of political pirates whose posts I've enjoyed; I hope we can all enjoy each other again, as we pound out our individual takes on life, liberty, and the pursuit of self-righteousness.
Long live the internet; long live the Pirates of the Fantastic Forum! And, most of all, LONG LIVE all our moderators.
Why you would welcome back those that use derogatories, and publish false reports is a major problem for me.(and please don't suggest that if I don't like it I can leave. That would be beneath you. You know how opinionated us Jews can be)Regardless of the position taken, I didn't care for the monkey turd, Hamster discharge, loony bin etc. references made to fellow Pirates who tried with an honest intent to have their opinion heard. I also didn't like the photo shopped misrepresentations presented as facts which were commonly exhibited here. You asked for an opinion, and now you have it. We all deserve a modicum of respect, and you're nostalgia for the good old days where everything goes is troublesome.
P.S.
Caveat Emptor, roughly translated means Let The Buyer Beware. What does that have to do with posting?
P.S.
Caveat Emptor, roughly translated means Let The Buyer Beware. What does that have to do with posting?
Last edited by Pegasuss on 12-04-2006 05:56 AM, edited 1 time in total.
The Truth Is Out There
A modicum of respect? And what would that be, Pegassus?
I would like those who are no longer posting here to return - if for no other reason than to nail your ass to the yardarm.
Read into this anything you like - with this caveat - it has nothing to do with being a Jew.
Yes - caveat emptor. And I'm not buying it.
I would like those who are no longer posting here to return - if for no other reason than to nail your ass to the yardarm.
Read into this anything you like - with this caveat - it has nothing to do with being a Jew.
Yes - caveat emptor. And I'm not buying it.
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Cherry Kelly
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On a sunny Monday morning (looking out at the banks of snow and ice) - I sit here wondering just what this election results have shown - to be discussed in political thread.
Discussion/debate - but not the personal attacks. The politics threads of long long ago - were basically more discussion/debate - then it turned into -- dunno what - far too many personal type attacks - not real discussion/debate - ideas...
We are a diverse nation and our politics are as diverse. I truly am more interested in issues that are put forth that will affect each and every one of us - dem or gop on a pro/con basis and not the name calling that became the rule rather than discussion. I like the new politics and hope it remains more of a discussion of ideas.
Discussion/debate - but not the personal attacks. The politics threads of long long ago - were basically more discussion/debate - then it turned into -- dunno what - far too many personal type attacks - not real discussion/debate - ideas...
We are a diverse nation and our politics are as diverse. I truly am more interested in issues that are put forth that will affect each and every one of us - dem or gop on a pro/con basis and not the name calling that became the rule rather than discussion. I like the new politics and hope it remains more of a discussion of ideas.
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moonchild2
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Judging by the content of your post, Pegasuss, it appears nothing is beneath you. It's as low (and disrespectful to the owner of this forum) as it gets.Pegasuss wrote: Why you would welcome back those that use derogatories, and publish false reports is a major problem for me.(and please don't suggest that if I don't like it I can leave. That would be beneath you. You know how opinionated us Jews can be)Regardless of the position taken, I didn't care for the monkey turd, Hamster discharge, loony bin etc. references made to fellow Pirates who tried with an honest intent to have their opinion heard. I also didn't like the photo shopped misrepresentations presented as facts which were commonly exhibited here. You asked for an opinion, and now you have it. We all deserve a modicum of respect, and you're nostalgia for the good old days where everything goes is troublesome.
P.S.
Caveat Emptor, roughly translated means Let The Buyer Beware. What does that have to do with posting?
Last edited by Bellisima on 12-04-2006 01:53 PM, edited 1 time in total.
A silent mouth is sweet to hear. Irish saying
Let's just consider moving on with all the great thoughts which Fantastic Forum Members post.
Linnea's a given, a true class-act who deserves nothing less than respect. I can't imagine Fantastic Forum without her. I support her thoughts and rules and this Forum's longevity.
Looks to me open season has been requested dealing with the use of the salt-coated and splintered Fantastic Forum Yardarm, standing-fast...
Clatu:(
Linnea's a given, a true class-act who deserves nothing less than respect. I can't imagine Fantastic Forum without her. I support her thoughts and rules and this Forum's longevity.
Looks to me open season has been requested dealing with the use of the salt-coated and splintered Fantastic Forum Yardarm, standing-fast...
Clatu:(
moonchild2 wrote: Pegassus - I would like to apologize to you for sounding snippy back in a previous thread on this very subject. I did not mean to sound sarcastic but I really wanted to know what you meant. It landed wrong on the paper!:(
Thank you for your thoughtfulness. Snippy I don't mind, profanity and derogatories can be a bit much though.
The Truth Is Out There
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Shirleypal
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Pegasuss wrote: Why you would welcome back those that use derogatories, and publish false reports is a major problem for me.(and please don't suggest that if I don't like it I can leave. That would be beneath you. You know how opinionated us Jews can be)Regardless of the position taken, I didn't care for the monkey turd, Hamster discharge, loony bin etc. references made to fellow Pirates who tried with an honest intent to have their opinion heard. I also didn't like the photo shopped misrepresentations presented as facts which were commonly exhibited here. You asked for an opinion, and now you have it. We all deserve a modicum of respect, and you're nostalgia for the good old days where everything goes is troublesome.
Pegasuss do not speak for this Jewish woman when talking about opinionated. As far as welcoming back posters who happen to be my friends just remember they are long time and respected members who helped to build this forum and put in a lot of work doing so.